The right to be forgotten...

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by gorski, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. Humphrey

    Humphrey MDL Expert

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    #61 Humphrey, Jul 20, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
    Seeing how it seems the govt powers at large are just letting the NSA do what it is they are doing, I wouldn't have been surprised if we never even heard of Snowden if he attempted to blow the whistle and stay at home. They'd surely grab him up and throw him in some dark hidden room and "lose" the key.

    There are so many things we, the public, are not told. Funny if you think of it, we the people make up the govt body in every form, but you let one person step out of line and say this isn't right and the rest throw off that person and prosecute them. If its bad enough you have to prosecute them because they said something, maybe it shouldn't have been happening in the first place.
     
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  2. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I am sure Snowden evaluated all opportunities before he has chosen what is right for him. He had to make a major decision, which also concerns his life massively.
     
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  3. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    #63 redroad, Jul 20, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
    @Yen I agree the decisions he made "concerns his life massively" whether he thought this out completely.. I am not yet convinced .. From the reporters he chose to release the info to and the itinerary he chose for asylum after gives me pause as to his motives .. Just saying .. Given the access he had (Snowden) there would have been much more he could have exposed and to a much greater effect than what was done .. That's my opinion :biggrin:

    @Humphrey The ACLU was prepared to bring a lawsuit and the public exposure would have guaranteed his life would have been safe .. He would have been in jail but if his goal was to have the greatest effect by bringing a lawsuit against the NSA's over reach would have done more than what the current outcome will be .. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/aclu-nsa-edward-snowden-surveillance-lawsuit
     
  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Socialism does not equal Stalinism/Bolshevism/"Real Socialism" you have seen in action, Yen...:rolleyes::busted_blue:

    Get yer arse in gear when you're debating such important stuff... :D:yeahyeah:

    Private property is not a thing but a (human) relationship...:shutup:

    Every epoch has some kind of private property but...
     
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  5. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    #65 redroad, Jul 20, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
    @acrsn He will end up in Jail anyway :rolleyes: IMHO and nothing will be done except implement a better way to lie to us both by corporations involvement and the U.S. governments practice .. I think Yen's idea is at least a way to stay proactive on the issue ;)

    How will the constitutionality of the NSA's surveillance program ever be challenged if no lawsuit is brought either from within the U.S. or a foreign government ? and how can you claim "the outcome of any inquiry's/lawsuits congressional hearings, etc. would also be the same." ?
     
  6. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    Of course I read the article :rolleyes: My point was/is the greatest impact would have been here in the U.S. Now he has exposed himself certainly to being locked up and not heard from again .. At least the trial here would have kept the dialogue alive and further exposed what was/is being done .. But all that is a mute point :D
     
  7. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    He had the choice to remain an anonymous source if he wanted to play it safe .. There is no good outcome for Snowden @ this point:rolleyes: If he wanted to have the greatest effect/impact on whatever his cause is was lost when he left the U.S. is my point .. Where he is now is limbo and he and what he did will be forgotten with no real effect at the end of the day ..
     
  8. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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  9. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    You don't understand: this is all for your own good, you see...:rolleyes::D:worthy:
     
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  10. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    They told us the same thing when they put us (native americans) on Reservations .. "this is all for your own good" :rolleyes::huh::wallbash::rofl6:
     
  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Of course, they knew their own kind:rolleyes: - all of you would have been dead had they not done that....:shutup:
     
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  12. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I am convinced Snowden did it right. One has to blow the whistle where it can be heard best. In the TV talk I saw they (host of the talk show) were connected with Glenn Greenwald. Greenwald said he has all the documents himself. After studying them he'll reveal even more. He said they are very complex. This can become the worst US-nightmare. It dosn't matter if Snowden can move or not, he has friends. And I am not sure if he'll end in jail......and if something should happen to him....there are still docs to release...

    PS: I hope I can open the other thread later this day.
     
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  13. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    @Yen I'm not hearing the whistle as of late:whistling::g:If he had done it right I'd still be hearing the whistle, wouldn't I?

    Greenwald writes on July 19, 2013 11:44

    I would think that both Greenwald and Snowden have found out that holding a gun to the head of the U.S. government is not going to get them the result that they claim they want :matrix_2: Sure it gets you the support of anti-american sympathizers but not much more .. True change, like as I mentioned in a previous post, will only come when a sustained challenge of "Executive Privlage" is waged ..

    If you want an example of how a public trial and the mischaracterization of justice can wake up a sleeping public to be involved .. Look at "George Zimmerman's" trial .. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-martin-groups-meet-houston-article-1.1405688
     
  14. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #74 Yen, Jul 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
    Well, being an US American you are much more familiar with the US institutions / laws and so on. :)

    My opinion is made as an European 'observer'. :biggrin: I don't know if other nations would have become that much 'affected' if he had remained in the US.... to me it does not enhance anti-american feelings.
    It is my govt itself that disappoints. They use NSA software as well. They had to admit that now.
    And they are IMHO too much pro USA politics and unable to recognize what is too much! That's the point.

    Furthermore I am unsure if the US govt is able for a change at all....IMHO Europe should distance....and not make concessions which the US govt itself never would make.....EU should be more sovereign and not support the US paranoia of a potential terror assault...

    A clarification here what has happened and evaluating of rights / laws of secret services in the EU would be fine. I do not expect more...control mania of US / British will probably remain...
     
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  15. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    I would describe "the war on terror" as the strawman invented by Neo-Conservatives in order to profit from peoples fear and war .. The whole spying apparatus is for insuring profit rather than paranoia .. Example vice president Dick Cheney (Neo-Con) brought us to the Iraq war presenting his Strawman argument as justification .. One of the profiteers from the Iraq war Halliburton

    As to your point
    I agree completely with the distinction that the paronoia is the part that sells the justification .. The underlying motive at the end of the day is profit IMHO of course :biggrin:
     
  16. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    Where the rubber meets the road ;)
    [h=1]NSA's Keith Alexander Calls Emergency Private Briefing To Lobby Against Justin Amash Amendment Curtailing Its Power [/h]
     
  17. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    Update :( :punish:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/justin-amash-amendment_n_3647893.html

     
  18. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Cheney also co-chaired(?) the oil corporation that seriously jeopardised life in the Mexican Gulf by its negligence and then it destroyed the evidence.... There's terrorism of a private corporation.

    Or the banks and private financial institutions threatening to go elsewhere if a political programme used to win elections is not abandoned, helping tax dodgers, sociopaths galore...

    One could go on for ever.... See "Corporation" movie and weep....
     
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  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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