The right to complain

We have been screwing with MS since MS has been screwing with us. It has been a long and fruitful relationship for many years. Both sides have gained from the give&take. I have as much moral high-ground to stand on as MS does when it comes do doing the right thing all the time. I would have to surmise that at minimum, 80% or better of most posters squirting about "Its ok to let MS do it cause we clicked EULA" and "Its not ok no matter wut!" have circumvented EULA/Licensing of an MS product for their own gain at some point in history to current date.

Living pono (Hawaiian for: "living with a conscious decision to do the right thing") is taken very serious in Hawaii. Even many of those living pono I would wager, cannot say they haven't used an MS product that was against EULA lol

 

Ok were talking BETA OS. First your looking from the out side in. Coming at this with your own conclusions, meaning just what MS is really doing and wanting to do. Who are you, who is anyone here? Your no one. If MS or anyone wanted to get INFO from you they dont need Microsoft's OS to do it nor would they ask MS. They know 99% will be ok reading some TOS some legal phrase. Again who are you where is it that you go and do that makes you think they even care? Its real simple. Don't like it don't use it.

Unless you were born yesterday this should be your last concern. Your phone your internet alone. Block all you want..it gets tracked somewhere. Look where you at.. no one here has that kind of "information" "block bounce blah blah" nor would they ever give it out. Gotta be like a house.. everything going on outside.. yet nothing goes out or comes in unless you open the door... no access to the door from the outside...whata I know

 

Exactly, my private info isn't MS's.


I couldn't help but took part in this debate. No law in the world governs anybody any right to take over your primary rights. If you create a software and make an EULA stating if you use this your wife or your kidney is mine for as long as you use this, that EULA will be illegal and not the person breaching it. Same applies to privacy.


Most of the people testing a beta app are more than eager to send usage info to the developer. But if the process lacks transparency, it cannot be legal. But they have this deep understanding with NSA and we all know the biggest law breakers in US are CIA and NSA. So, guess what they created an EULA and nobody is on court with it!

 

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Well guys time to enter the murky waters.

Can we at least get one thing straight at this point? The Windows 10 TP is not a Keylogger! It can be construed as an Operating system that "Data Mines" the computer to which it has been installed on. I have repeatedly stated that the EULA in general is not enforceable as it binds the user into an agreement which is in violation of other laws. That being said to say that you have no right to modify the operating system is counter productive. You bought the OS to use as you see fit. In terms of legality it is perfectly legal to examine a product before using it which is exactly what you are doing right now. That includes being able to take it apart to see how it functions.

That being said the only illegal thing that could be done would be to remove the timebomb on the OS at this point.

 

I'm still gonna start calling it a keylogger just to give the practice more bad press, even though it's unfair.
I hate all forms of privacy invasion, and the more the public is outraged, the less likely MS will ever include something like that in their final RTM.

 

All your points above are correct, NOBODY denies that!

You just forget about the OS and any of the other software you installed on your hardware: IT'S NOT YOURS! You only got the right to use it as long as you use according to the EULA of the granted License for use.

As a matter of fact, the EULA which may is origin written in the US, is fully or partly taken into the local law of those countries who're allowed to sell the related product. In South East Asia, that EULA slightly differs from it's origin in the US, as the content of the Software it is attached too and therefore allowed by law to be sold and activated in South East Asia region only. Same would be happen to other but all countries about the Planet Earth! The EULA's in Europe although slightly differs from the one in the US because of a different Law.

Yen is right to say:

The EULA of MS Product's legally sold in Yen's country, are adopted fully or partly into the local law of Yen's country and Yen therefore is bound to that and any breach could be prosecuted regarding to the local law of his country. And it would be handled in any other country!

 

Your 'feeling' could be considered as a normal human feeling and it is.

Any Law will force a bad feeling if those law goes against the very personal feelings. Simple normal!

But you and many other are wrong in their thinking and to tell THAT's MINE and I BOUGHT IT! Software, except those you fully created on your own, is never yours, you just pay and/or get an granted right for the use of that Software as long follow the rules you have accepted BEFORE using the first time.

Check out with an local Lawmaker of your country, what legal and/or not in that EULA you accepted before using. It's simply your fault and the first offense if you didn't had read that EULA up front of using.

Don't get me wrong, that's nothing personal, just what the reality is. I had lose an Law Case regarding this issue which has cost me a lot of money. It were NOT Microsoft that was Adobe and since I'm with my company under continue observation of the BSA! So I'm knowing exactly what I'm talking about.

If you think you (and others) could just do what you (or others) want, go ahead and hopefully they never catch you! But if they do catch you, point the finger to yourself as the offender because you forced the outcome onb your own will.

 

I will repeat this again the "EULA" is not enforceable as it violates the privacy of the User. It can also be construed as a violation of the 5th Amendment as you would be testifying against yourself. Pisthai I will be plain there is no legal context because it has not been created yet. That means the legal precedence is still being created for this kind of stuff.

Further, in ProCD v. Zeidenberg, the license was ruled enforceable because it was necessary for the customer to assent to the terms of the agreement by clicking on an "I Agree" button in order to install the software. In Specht v. Netscape Communications Corp., however, the licensee was able to download and install the software without first being required to review and positively assent to the terms of the agreement, and so the license was held to be unenforceable.

I refuse your argument and provide my evidence to the contrary.

The EULA is the joke of contractible agreements. You could put the entirety of Mein Kampf in the agreement and people would agree to it.

 

@Smorgan:

So, in clear word: you although deny that you have to follow the law of your own country? OK, that's just up to you, it's your life!

Just the Read Before Use is enough as enforcement, there isn't any need of the existence of an special Agree button or some like that!

Anyway, it's useless for to discuss some with you because you simply deny the existence of your own countries law.

Have a good day. Bye.l

 

I acknowledge the existence of the law but I deny the ability of the courts to enforce it due to the nature of how messed up it is.

If you can tell me with a straight face the EULA as a whole is enforceable then I guess we are living in a very screwed up age. One example of this is that an EULA once stated it had rights over your immortal soul. We need to overhaul contractual agreements in this country because of the shinagins you can get away with. While providing so little information such as what Microsoft has done that you have to install the software to even figure out what its doing.

“Microsoft collects information about you, your devices, applications and networks, and your use of those devices, applications and networks. Examples of data we collect include your name, email address, preferences and interests; browsing, search and file history; phone call and SMS data; device configuration and sensor data; and application usage.”​

Now that tells you what its doing but where does it say how? The amount of information being collected? Now can you tell me this doesn't violate every privacy law known to man?

 

You actually don't have to agree to the EULA if you use an autounattend.xml file.
The problem with arguing the legality of that is that depending on who is hearing the case.
In any case, people are correct in stating that local laws take precedent over any EULA terms.
It's really only there to provide framework for legal arguments to demonstrate intent.

There is no law that states that anything in a EULA is legally binding.
They could insert an indentured servant clause and it wouldn't mean anything.
They couldn't just go into court and say "this user agreed to become my slave".

 

I don't want to argue with you about that fact's.

But I do believe that you have to agree with me that you could only DO WHAT YOU WANT with things YOU OWN and not with anything which isn't yours! And an existing fact is, that regarding software the owner is:

• the person who wrote the code, or
• the person or company who ordered others to write/develop the code, or
• the person, Company, Organization or juristic person and/or juristic Organization, which also includes Companies, staates etc., or
• whom bought that software in full content which includes the whole Source Code('s) (same applies for whom get those as a gift which has include that Source Code('s)!

Now tell me: WHO is the real Owner of Windows 10 tp in full content and is the only juristic person who has all rights? Please answer that simple question!

Thanks.

 

Well, in software, it depends on how the thing is sold or licensed.
If you modify your own copy and don't try to re-sell it, there's no law against it in every country that I'm aware of.
If you modify it and then go around and re-sell it, it obviously violates copyrights as it's not content you created.
If you got a deal on a group license and then go around and try to sell individual copies it violates first-sale doctrine AFAIK.

I think that you're thinking about this in the wrong way. It's not about what you own, but what laws apply to what you do with something in your possession.

 

Why did you read around the fact that the Owner of that software here in question is nobody else than Microsoft?! And that's just the first point and the one I asked you to answer clearly with simple words! Could you?

And please although answer me a 2. question: What Software you can really buy from Microsoft, if any? I talking not about Licenses for to use the property of Microsoft!

Thanks.

 

It's good that I have contact with people in other countries because from talking to other people here in the U.S. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills by being bothered with all the privacy invasion going on.
Ever since 9/11/2001, people have just consigned themselves to be right by default and that it was O.K. for the gov't to go around witch-hunting everyone Salem-style.
They even spy on our own lawmakers in the intelligence committee and get told not to do it; yet keep doing it.
I feel like I live on another damn planet over here where people don't understand that this stuff needs to stop.

 

Again, you're thinking about it wrong. It's not about who owns it, it's about what you're allowed to do with something in your possession.
To borrow an analogy from Yen, when you rent a room from someone, you don't own it, but you're allowed to make it your own space by decorating it and putting up posters and such if you want.

 

So, no simple answer!!

But to answer what you wrote above: You are allowed to do what is in your possession what the Owner of that product allows you to do with it! That could be although called: EULA = End User License Agreement!

Back to square one!

Regards

 

Not necessarily. You are allowed to do what is in your possession as it pertains to the law. Your rental agreement would not be binding in a court of law if it violated local laws.
Typically what you see in a renter's agreement though pertains to a security deposit. I.E. you'd see something like "If this guy leaves the place in a state that requires sufficient cleaning and/or repair, they won't get their security deposit back" and then you pay like an extra month's rent for the security deposit. Then, even if they take you to court, they have to demonstrate the money damages to allow for the money not being returned. The agreement is a warning, not a court order.