The right to complain

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by KnowledgeableNewbie, Oct 13, 2014.

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  1. pisthai

    pisthai Imperfect Human

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    I hope for you that you would never face the Country Law of your country in action against you, it would be a very bad Wake Up (for you)!

    You're may be a good programmer or computer Engineer but would fail in business, me think.

    For me this discussion is over because I do not like to discuss with Ignorants who didn't want to see the relaity, just what they have in their own mind.

    Bye, bye.
     
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  2. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

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    I've been in court dealing with my ex over custody and support issues.
    It's where I learned the harsh reality that people don't have to follow agreements if they violate some law or principle.
     
  3. TONSCHUH

    TONSCHUH MDL Addicted

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    But is "modifying" the Software / OS not like removing / bypassing a Copy-Protection / DRM etc. , which is at least in some countries still not allowed / legal ?

    Things like GameCopyWorld or AnyDVD are at least somehow in a grey area of the law / copyright-law in certain countries.

    Just asking, because I'm not sure about it.

    :confused:
     
  4. cactusjuice

    cactusjuice MDL Novice

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    I just wanted to try the new OS to see the start menu for myself. I didn't need internet access to try the features so I simply disabled the network adapter.
     
  5. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

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    Activators aren't something that's allowed under most country's laws, but there's not exactly a penalty for using them to circumvent the activation on your own OS that you paid for.
    What could they do about it really? Claim financial damages? Nope. Violate EULA? EULA enforcement is not a thing; never has been.
     
  6. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #46 Yen, Oct 14, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
    The fact that your opinion is different is no problem, but your reasoning and your intention to make it appear more ‘right’. ;)


    You are also not talking about ‘the’ reality. You are talking about your reality, about what you have in your mind, about how you reflect the matter where you live. You are ignorant as well and hence you cannot criticize another one for that.

    Opinions can stay different, there is no problem. I can understand you and murphy. :)
    It’s not about who is more right.



    Modifying is a flexible term.
    Let me quote the entire sentence: „My personal sense of laws is that when I have a legal license, then it is my copy of the OS. Installing TP means I have got a legal license. I can modify it like I want.”

    This situation assumes that I have paid for a legit license. To use a loader is actually no modification of the OS at all. A loader is illegal, because it mimics a license which is not issued by M$ and hence not paid.


    Examples of modification I mean:
    -Make a complete fresh install to get rid of an OEM bloatware install
    -disable services
    -modify registry
    -block traffic by redirecting to localhost
    -uninstall what I want
    -using third party themes

    Concerning game copy world.
    Yes I can use whatever they offer, because I have a valid license (means here I have paid for the game)

    Concerning AnyDVD: Yes I can make an m2ts file from my Blu-ray movie to run it from my media server without to fiddle with disks.) Means here I have paid for my Blu-ray disk.

    To me important is have I got a legal license?
    If yes I can do what I want. I can remove DRM of the media to make an own copy for easier use and to use it on different devices.
    And here I don’t care what the laws say…I am speaking of private use only, of course.

    Finally I want to add that a private person (and M$ is a private person) cannot make laws and that is good. Nobody can refer to EULA when it comes to court. One can refer to local laws only.

    What they can and do is to take influence on lawmakers by their lobbyism, though.
     
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  7. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I had been beta tester for an adventure game many years ago. Before it came to the contract I had to read the conditions and finally sign NDA.
    They clearly disclosed what they transfer to eliminate bugs. One could pause the game to submit the frame index (the 'position' in the game) and I could add a description. And there was a SUBMIT button.

    It is common that beta soft has an option to disable feedback options like send error report and the like.

    But no post here (complaint) does have an effect, except to exchange opinions. The one and only action one should take to have an effect (realize complaint) is NOT to install w10 TP.
     
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  8. pisthai

    pisthai Imperfect Human

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    Sorry Yen, I have first hand experiences with exactly that Copyright and License Law and been convicted of breaching both of them. And that case were going over 2 instances. And as I wrote again, that were not Microsoft, it was Adobe! So I believe that I could claim to know what I'm talking about.

    On the other hand, It is for sure up to everybody else what to do in reality, even to breach or not to breach existing law. My intention to write about were just to inform about possible consequences.

    Not to understand is such behavior to admit it is just up to anybody to what ever they want with what they have in possession, even they're not the owner of that property! Even if maybe something isn't 100% conform with some normal law in use, didn't allows the user just to ignore what the Owner had limited and disallowed. Special as it comes to Software it's in first line that the Copyright Law come in use. That Law is quite international and differences in different Countries are just a few. Although, companies like Microsoft, Adobe and others let their License Agreements checked by the Law Dep's of those countries in which they sell their products, and that License Agreements will be bound to the countries law and law enforcement!

    Like it or not, an End User License Agreement is nothing more than the Guide how and with what limitations the property of the Owner (in this case Microsoft!) allow the use of his property. That all differs a bit within some countries.

    And last but not least: Those european countries who convicted MS had done that for what reason? Simple for money! And for limit MS a bit too! Still those european countries using the existing but changed License Agreements of MS in their local laws dep's!
     
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  9. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

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    I'm guessing you were making money with adobe's products without their licensing permission. That is clearly a copyright violation regardless of the EULA.
     
  10. Smorgan

    Smorgan Glitcher

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    #50 Smorgan, Oct 14, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
    That is the most twisted and warped thing I have seen all day... well besides the crappy weather report. Anyway the Windows 10 TP in its current form represents a massive amount of "Data Mining". This means also that we have no effective way to disable the "Data Mining". We can now interpret this as a "Rootkit". Lets be honest here Copyright Law is now for the benefit of the common user but as the company. Your reasoning is flawed because of the current form of the USA copyright law is heavily flawed with it tilted towards the Companies with the DMCA. Right now we have laws that have not caught up with the times as we are in heavily changing times.

    You keep ignoring the fact that the EULA is a general framework. However local laws come first before the EULA. That being said the EULA covers most ways to bypass the licensing which I presume you did because of the high price of the software suit. That being said we have been licensed this software meaning we have a right to look at any portion we want. This is relevant on the skills the user has meaning each user will be able to do separate things.

    We are not circumventing the license because it has a digitally signed boot loader. In my mind the circumvent the licensing is to reverse the software while adding any software that will bypass the license protection. We have two ways this can be done in the Windows OS GUI or the Windows boot loader that emulates portions of the OEM licensing. Either way your not being licensed with a valid product key to the software.

    We need to look into the Windows TP with more scrutiny either way.
     
  11. pisthai

    pisthai Imperfect Human

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    Sorry, I bought an original packed in Singapore which had fake Registration number, which worked for some time till the real Owner of that License (also an Thai!) first were catched by BSA. I won the case In SG, but didn't get the Fine in Thailand back where I was convicted! And the seller never came to Thailand so I couldn't get him to local law enforcement!

    Before you guessing and assuming, it would be better to ask before! According what you wrote in many of your post, you'd breached the Copyright Law in many instances. Look at the dirt in front of your door first before doing so by others.
     
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  12. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

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    How the heck does any of that have to do with a EULA? You bought a counterfeit copy of software.
     
  13. s1ave77

    s1ave77 Has left at his own request

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    Please stop that insulting tone, thank you :cool2:.
     
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  14. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    He/she is begging... praying for a BAN.
     
  15. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

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    Keep it above the belt, bud. Using terms like "insane", "joke", "mentally challenged" are inflammatory and signal to others that you wish to fight.

    This is a big issue that people coming from less mature forums have.
    Back when I first started here, I was used to TPB and youtube comments.
    I got in trouble with the locals at first because I had an accusatory tone in a lot of my posts.

    Some people never get out of that mode.
    Remember the guy who was always making new threads and started making racist comments? That guy didn't get any better :p
     
  16. l30

    l30 GFX Wizard

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    You people believe it or not but all builds including windows 8 and newer builds include some sort of surveillance program to view the data of people and it is major violation of human rights and that's the main reason its banned in China for official use.
     
  17. Yen

    Yen Admin
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  18. oldsh_t

    oldsh_t MDL Expert

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    Just my thoughts here.

    What M$ should do in their updates is to have someway of checking if this Keyloger or any other type of information feed back service has been turned off. If it is found to be turned off then that operating system gets shut down. Simple as that!!

    This is a test operating system and if people do not want to help M$ in the test, then they are not much help. M$ does not need them so they should shut them down and work with the many who are willing to help.

    One good thing about that is that it will stop all this bickering back and forth. People that are worried about the keyloger will not have to worry anymore.
     
  19. Espionage724

    Espionage724 MDL Expert

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    I'm curious; what kind of actual feedback do you think Microsoft will get by keylogging? And on top of that, how is all the keylogged data actually handled? Does Microsoft just have a ton of contracted workers sitting in-front of computers reading all the keylogged data per-user, looking for key phrases?

    I can understand Microsoft wanting to know what programs you run and what settings you use, and "maybe" even check search history to see if you search specific terms for certain fixes. But OS-wide keylogging sounds like nothing but unnecessary data mining.