To be or not to be, or just become something...lol

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by timesurfer, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
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    Who's to say at what measure in time do we actually go from one identity to the other, except maybe at birth when we go from being a part of Mom to our own individual self...

    I prefer identilying as to being compared to always becoming something or playing a role to relate to other roles

    I prefer relating from my being to other beings

    But this discussion unfortunately might want to tend to veer towards an argument of what is "being" but hopefully it will not get stuck in any predisposition of what being is or "being" in itself would never be allowed to be for lack of better word

    Is creation "becoming something" actually based on "being" and how the universe (creation) works as a "cosmic (whole system) science between the un-maniest (being) and the manifest (become something)?

    Are we really always born into the manifest unconscious to the un-manifest or are some born awake to being and the infrastructure (cosmic science) of all that is or has been or will forever be

    A science so precise from the perspective of infinite being the manifest could change (a miracle) from one "moment" to another, hence what might have already passed could be changed or "renewed" and deemed a miracle or unexplainable!

    Everything is always new all the time

    That's some science...

    The first smiley that all smiley's came from ---> :)
     
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  2. moon510

    moon510 MDL Junior Member

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    #2 moon510, Jul 10, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
    Shakespeare said that this world is a stage. Everybody plays a role, wears a kind of mask, or a smiley. There are many masks to be changed in order to have relations. That's the way how things work with humans. Those masks, those smileys are "something". We can say that Bill Gates has a golden mask, but mask is a mask. Behind that something is nothing which is unmanifest, and cannot be manifest. That nothing is painful for those who identify themselves with the smiley. That smiley falls off when death comes, and we fall back to "nothing", which is there all the time. Sages of the ancinet East claim that there are spiritual disciplines that provide access to "nothing" while still being or becoming "something". In other words, their awareness is capable of shifting between manifest and unmanifest. You realize that you really play a role on the world stage, and behind the scenes is "nothing" or "being nothing" if you will. :)
     
  3. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #3 timesurfer, Jul 26, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
    (OP)
    Hey, I wasn't saying that there aren't roles to play! I was saying what is beyond roles or at the root of roles in general and I thought to express that that is being not becoming something so even though one might play the role of Dad, one might still identify with being rather than becoming a "Dad" :eek:

    It seems hard for a man to be satisfied when he is always going from one role to another and yet if a man is allowed to be then he can do anything and still maintain his being. Seems the world would have people loosing themselves in the things they become and then controlling them based on whether they we're "becoming something correctly" or not

    I tend to keep roles outside me and being inside but I'm a girl and I can't speak for men and I am challenged by the internal/external demands to become something all the time. Some conscious, some unconscious but none the less I too can stay aware when an energy or demand/expectation is 'upon" me but the trick is to be aware when one leaves being for becoming something. That is the hard part and what true Buddhist teachings are rooted in which is why paying attention to our thoughts is so important and how those thoughts make the body feel or react to those thoughts or desire to become something. Unbeknowning to some, thoughts and the mind are not bad but rather our resistance to thoughts and what those thoughts could become or "manifest"

    Free your mind...

    Seems also that people seem to dump/externalize their demand/expectations to become something rather than dealing with it themselves. I call this abuse!!

    Being seems to settle thought and calm the body through my perspective :cool:

    Also if examined through non-partial/flawed logic saying that the "unmanifest" is "nothing" might be an error in observation!?

    For being creates all including both something and nothing but that is a refined perspective having experienced "nothing" and "nothing" is still something to "being"

    It seems real hard to be in the world with so much pressure or demand to become something

    Perhaps men who never become pregnant might have good perspective as to just "being" since they will never strive to become pregnant? They however, do participate in a woman becoming pregnant but never themselves actually become something other than themselves

    What I'm pointing to is hard to see and hard to write in words but it seems to me when one is being rather than always needing to become something there is a certain awareness that is available that is not in becoming something but perhaps in becoming something which has it's root in being might also have perspective and not locked into the roles we sometimes find ourselves unconscious to?

    p.s. Death to me is also becoming something :suicide:...lol...so knowing the essence of being might require a refined state of awareness not just what's after death :rolleyes:

    I like the model that has creation being both part "being" and part "becoming something" combined and the two in facilitation of the 'mind" or "clutch" that governs what manifests, changes and dissolves, but this is not the usual thinking for it might imply that all things are interconnected and in sync with the whole or the total creation workings throughout eternity!

    :shisha:
     
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  4. moon510

    moon510 MDL Junior Member

    May 10, 2007
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    Hi,

    I always try to avoid to tie my mind to a concept when discussing these things. Symbols are better means. What I mean by "nothing" is not nothing opposite to something. When one falls into that "noting", there is no "one", no "something", no "nothing". Nobody can say for certain what comes after death. But intuitively, we can guess. Death, when observed on others, seems to be becoming something, but from the perspective of one who dies, it's pure disappearance, just like falling asleep without dreams.
    I agree that it is better not to divide being and becoming. They are two wings of the same bird. Mind cannot fly freely without allowing the opposites to meet.
    And yes , men who have spiritual aspirations, also have a kind of envy for women for their ability of becoming pregnant. Pregnancy is very powerful metaphor of being and becoming meeting together.

    Have a nice day :)
     
  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    Mind cannot understand being. Being has no cause. Any term was born from a dualistic view and suffers from becoming. This is the home of mind / intellect. They can create any opposite they want.

    When speaking of ‘unmanifest’, emptiness, nothing, we want to point to eternal being, but the mind lets it become ‘something’.
    To most people it is important to have spiritual progress at all to separate becoming from being. A ‘progress’ can be only made if one is conscious of being. Only then the eternity unveils and a separation has gone. Until one is identified with becoming (all the ideas and things) one cannot recognize the eternity of the now.

    Death does not exist to (eternal) being, death is a result of becoming. Both belong to the illusions of duality, being means consciousness beyond death / birth.

    There is nothing after death, who would recognize 'the hereafter'? The body has gone and cannot.

    If one is convinced that one is the body, then one will die, because it has become. Means death and the idea that one is his/her body are the same illusions.

    The question (of the intellect) is what makes own death (becoming) real to one? What dies at all? There is becoming for sure, things come and go and change, but what has it to do with 'one' Self?
     
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  6. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I want to relate my previous reply to yours for inspiration, not to provide 'my' opinion. Finally it are terms and hence very limited. :)
    "I always try to avoid to tie my mind to a concept when discussing these things. Symbols are better means."

    These 2 sentences include everything I wanted to mention. The blue part requires to focus on being, the second red one to becoming, though.
    Becoming presumes a linear progress in the time to become means to determine. To most being also, like before I was born I was not... and when I die I will be no more.

    The paradox which can be even understood by the intellect unveils when I have an idea what will be after death. But 'who' recognizes that what will be after death? Can one be dead recognizing the 'situation' after death?!?
    The logic conclusion would be the one can't be dead. Or in other words 'after death' it happens exactly that what I recognize, nothing else. The term 'after death' becomes obsolete.

    This flaw from the intellect is unsatisfying though and brings no real inner peace.
    That what is experienced when focusing on being can never be expressed using words or symbols. That is the reason for all conflicts of spiritual aspects and aspects of the intellect.

    "pregnancy is very powerful metaphor of being and becoming meeting together."
    Yes. Actually any and hence called 'mind-breaking, stunning' events have those attributes available for very mind related people also. But only one of both 'brings' real happiness.
    Such events are able to open awareness of being, to let the 'source of being' shine through....and only at second instance of becoming.
    The focus on being brings happiness and inner peace already.
    Is one happy to be, or is one happy to become, or that something becomes (which is just becoming of something -different- that has become already)....? Any happiness that is related to becoming comes and goes.
    This becomes clear when the baby has become adult and leaves the house the first time.

    Happy inspiration. Feel free to add your thoughts. :)
     
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  7. moon510

    moon510 MDL Junior Member

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    Natural death i s a process that can be useful symbolically. Death can be observed as disintegration of the body AND dissolving of the mind. All dreams, all thoughts, all feelings are gone. What is left is unconscious being and natural forces that instigate another "try" toward conscious being. Like mythical Phoenix rising from the ashes. Eons might pass until intellect realizes that conscious being is reachable only through death. Physical death is pointless in that regard. As I said, in death, mind ceases to exist, disappears. Practically, if we have a technique to quiet the mind, thoughts, feelings, desires - being is revealed. Quiet mind is no-mind. mind dead. And what is beyond? Just conscious being. Meditation is mimic of death. If the mind stops just for a moment, the view of the "becoming world" turns upside down. What seemed to be real is unreal. There is a paradoxical state in which fully awakened being realizes the "becoming" things in it are the stuff of dreams. Everybody, now and then, has a notion during sleep, especially if dreaming is too beautiful or too horrible. The sleeper thinks "This must be a dream." It's very rare, but it happens sometimes in sleep. Fully awakened being says: This reality, this world IS a DREAM, a MAYA. On the other hand, unconscious being, which is mind, being dreaming, usually does not doubt the reality of a dream. Just like us, when sleeping, we take our dreams for reality.:bye:
     
  8. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Nice post. :)
    It has points (just like my posts) where a mind related person is starting to argue, but not when be able to look through the symbols that are used. "Meditation is mimic of death" is one of those. :biggrin:
    To this one it fits: "What is death? It is just the end of all illusions, a wise person dies before the own death."

    Many people have a taste of that in their life, the Zen expression Satori fits best. But later the 'event' becomes determined by the mind / intellect and all that is left is a memory of it. Furthermore their 'mind' is telling them it must have been something illusionary. In fact they had a moment of total awareness of reality. To see things as they are, before they become.
    Any 'stunning' event can be attended with a Satori, also birth of a own baby. Meditation just means to be aware of the moment 'any' time.
    Happy weekend. :bye:
     
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  9. Polyester

    Polyester MDL Junior Member

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    I don't know..:weeping:
     
  10. amaraamanda

    amaraamanda MDL Novice

    Jul 22, 2015
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    good word..make me inspiration
     
  11. ratnagalih

    ratnagalih MDL Novice

    Aug 20, 2015
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    very nice.. :biggrin: