Tools which protect our privacy. Post your tools / ways you are using and opinions.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Yen, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    This is actually a very important topic.

    When is one responsible for something..or aiding....

    There are criminal intents and means to realize a criminal action. But using the same means does not mean realizing a criminal action.

    Does the ISP then aid as well = responsible that people can access the dark web?!? Modem manufacturer making tech to access it??

    There is no determinable limit by the means.

    I strictly judge by intent not by means.

    I can provide a ‘knife’ = provide a node

    One can cook with it = one can use tor to surf anonymously.
    One can do harm or kill with it = one can use the node for criminal actions.

    Actually the only thing what counts are the laws finally…and AFAIK providing a node is no criminal action...it is rather a matter of ethics.
     
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  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Achhhh, the dirty word... ethics, bleuurrghhh.... Don't mention the war... where everything is dirty - it's OK if you are acting just as bad...

    Is it?

    P.S. When the means become so powerful, then one must think of the consequences beforehand. Have you not learnt anything from "scientism", nuclear power, pitfalls of technology, as powerful as it is today and should it not be seriously well monitored/policed, then genetics and related sciences, from ethics to policies? Why do you think is necessary to have those monitoring and policy-making bodies? Because science is "neutral"? C'mon, Yen. You should know better!
     
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  3. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I have not said monitoring is not necessary.
    You are right with what you say. But the matter is 'just' do I support crime when using tor?

    Monitoring means to wait for the crime leaving its causes and reasons untouched.

    We should consider what we want to achieve with our arguments.
    A criminal action and to stay anonymous while doing it comes together, there is no way to argue otherwise.
    But to use means to be anonymous does not mean the reason to do so is to realize/support (a) crime.
     
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  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Nope.

    As I said already, if you are a client only - one story...

    If you are a server and "fully on" - quite another story...

    "Monitoring" in terms of any serious "power/human capacity/invention/area of activity" is not just monitoring but also a normative activity. "Watchdogs", Parliamentary committees on ethics of research and development and whatnot. The potential to do great harm is there and hence we can not afford to just be reactive. This is not just retrospective! And it better be seriously pro-active because with innovation, discovery etc. - watch out!

    Monitoring in terms of police activity also isn't always just waiting for a crime to be committed but sometimes there is activity to prevent crime. Of course, they have to have great intelligence etc. beforehand and it has to be done with great scrutiny but as a principle...

    So, the point is: things are not exactly black and white...
     
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  5. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

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    What are the differences of the security between obfsproxy4 + socks and only meek?

    Because Chinese people must avoid GFW and others.
     
  6. ofernandofilo

    ofernandofilo MDL Member

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  7. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

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    #187 mdlgaofei, Jul 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
    I think about TOR for a very long time.
    I think that every node can decrypt encrypted messages. So we have to exclude the honeypot.
    Please correct my wrong if I have been wrong.
     
  8. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

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    #188 mdlgaofei, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  9. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

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    #189 mdlgaofei, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  10. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #190 Yen, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
    (OP)
    No it works layer-wise as the skin of an onion.

    You should know what "Onion routing" is and how it works. (Message encrypted several times layer-wise, but node A decrypts (peels) layer A only and so on) :)

    When the message reaches the exit node, all of the layers have been decrypted and message is now in plaintext, respectively the way it originally was (if you communicate via SSL it is still encrypted)....

    What you call honeypot are untrusted exit nodes which are 'known' to leak....

    Tor itself does not leak anonymity, though. (Tracking the route to your original IP address is not possible) If..then it is your message that contains info about person.

    As said I do not care about custom tor configurations, I just want random IP addresses.

    If you want to send really sensitive data you have to encrypt them additionally before you send them through tor.

    Best is to use PGP (end-to-end) sharing your public key. Then it does not matter if an exit node should become a honeypot....


    Summary: Tor is made to surf the net without a relation to your original IP address. At the exit node the message is 'original' again but its origin isn't traceable.

    Tor guarantees anonymity by random IP addresses/onion routing (tracking not possible) not by encrypting the message itself.
     
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  11. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

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    The first generation onion routing

    Many webpages says the second generation onion routing. TOR contains them.

    I'd like to know the first generation onion routing
     
  12. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Well, the history of Onion Routing started with generation 0 in the 20th century already.
    It comes originally from ONR (Office of Naval Research)...yes actually from the US military :biggrin:
    Later Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) had been involved.


    Commonly TOR and Onion Routing are acronym, but TOR is based on second generation Onion Routing with the goal to have onion routing available for public 'common' and daily use.

    AFAIK generation 1 before the TOR project had never public importance. It used too much of special protocols.
    It was abandoned 2002

    If you are interested a friend just told me most of generation 1 design is published at the IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy. I don't have any idea, though, you would have to search on your own for it.

    Only with SOCKS support it became more usable for public 'needs' at generation 2 and there's no need to write application proxies for each application anymore.


    Yeah once developed by the US military.

    BUT if you now use TOR or TAILS the US authorities make a record in their database via XKeyscore and stigmatize you as a potential criminal. (Source: Snowden) :rolleyes:

    Hmm no comment on this! (I would have to moderate my own post) :)
     
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  13. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
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    I tried using TOR to beat file hosts that impose long delays between downloads by monitoring IPs.

    Well, I couldn’t fool any of them, they made me sit out the full delay period. Some even punished me by showing difficult captchas, going thru countdown, and then showing a blank page.

    This may not prove that they knew who I was, but they certainly knew I was not who I claimed to be.
     
  14. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    They highly probable got that you've used tor and block tor users per default.

    There are different methods to identify clients which are using tor. Besides of that the route your're going is changing during a session.

    -the list of Tor relays is public
    -looking at various tor application-level (TOR browser bundle) characteristics. (reading HTTP headers)

    Such file hosts are prepared getting fooled by using tor. You would need to use a own config to fool them.

    Besides of that if you've alowed Java they for sure collected more identifiers from you at first download or they stored something temporary like cookies...

    Maybe just not using the browser bundle would already work to fool them...
     
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  15. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

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    hidden services

    Google hidden service mecc26obkiyxzgzg.onion (not sure is it copyrighted by google official people)

    DuckDuckGo hidden service 3g2upl4pq6kufc4m.onion duckduckggwuzuwl.onion (The last one, not sure is it copyrighted by DDG official people)

    searx lqdnpadpys4snom2.onion (not sure is it copyrighted by searx offcial people)
     
  16. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

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    Program-think.blogspot.com
    Look at the right side of the webpage. Scroll down to find something about surfing anonymously.
    That blogger even uses virtual machine to keep anonymous.
     
  17. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

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    TOR and DNS

    Many webpages says how tor works. But they don't seem to say that when to connect DNS.
    After you input a URL, the normal browser send a request to a DNS. And TOR?
     
  18. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

    Dec 2, 2015
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    Malware , privacy.

    I saw some explanation of roguekiller and process hacker on some website.

    Roguekiller can scan and delete malware, process hacker is an open-source software that seems like an alternative to task manager.
     
  19. mdlgaofei

    mdlgaofei MDL Member

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