The cars Gorski is pushing are completely electric, and he relies on "superchargers" alongside the roads to keep them charged. Going with your train of thought, back in the 1930's and 1940's International Harvester made an engine for their "Farmall M" and "Farmall H" series which you would start on leaded gasoline (either by a 6 volt starter or by crank) and once the engine was warm you would flip a lever and it would be running on Kerosine.
Gorski is not "pushing" anything. Gorski is informing himself, trying to see what is in Humanity's/general interest, trying to see what, if anything, can he do, to leave a better or at least not totally shi**y world to his kids, so I can look them in the eye, on my dying bed and tell them "I love you and I tried acting accordingly, I was not screwing you over, by considering only my own comfort"!!! As opposed to a certain JFK who is simply on an ego-trip... A small difference...
Actually every post you have made on this subject you are pushing your crap without considering the ramifications. Others here have also noticed that and poked fun at you with their insinuating that you have tesla stock, etc... Personally I dislike broken records, and that is what you sound like gorski.
Boy, you really are full of... yourself... Only a moron would say that I am "pushing" EVs - in a thread with an auspicious title... What do you think about Electric Cars?
Not only are you "pushing" tesla's, you are in the process of killing Tesla (Nicola) and everything he has done for humanity. Spoiler https://cleantechnica.com/2017/12/1...easingly-come-hvdc-edisons-preferred-current/ Tesla vs. Tesla: The Juice In Your Car Will Increasingly Come Through HVDC, Edison’s Preferred Current December 16th, 2017 by Michael Barnard So you’ve got this awesome car, Tesla Models S/3/X. You plug it in at night in your garage or at a local garage with an urban Supercharger, or maybe your company is enlightened and has chargers in the parking garage along with bike racks and an LRT shuttle. But where is the electricity coming from? Increasingly, it’s generated by wind, sun, or water, coming from a long way away and transiting high-voltage direct current (HVDC) transmission lines to get to you. This is one of the major trends in grid innovation I’m exploring in my ongoing series. It started with 7 Reasons the Future is Electric and has parallel threads on HVDC, blockchain for cleantech, and emerging ancillary markets that wind and solar can play in. So, what’s HVDC and how is it different from normal transmission? This is partially a Thomas Edison vs Nikola Tesla story. Edison was committed to direct current, but Tesla liked alternating current. Alternating current was easier to step up and down and DC couldn’t be transformed reliably, so it became the transmission and distribution standard for electricity. Edison did some ugly things to try to win the fight, but lost. Then he won economically anyway. Most long-distance transmission today is built using high-voltage alternating current, but it has some interesting limitations. ◊ It’s limited to 765 kilovolts (kV), which is more than enough to fry an egg. Due to the nature of alternating current, after that, voltage losses due to the electromagnetic field interacting with the insulation and heating it makes AC uneconomic. ◊ Most of the transmission is through elevated lines, in part due to the expense of burying lines and maintaining underground lines, but also because the heat buildup problem is worse underground and they hold more charge, which limits the distance they can transmit electricity to about 80 kilometers. The holding more charge point, capacitance, means that more energy has to be pushed into the line before it can be reversed. Overhead, high-voltage alternating current lines are kept a long way from one another and the earth, because the electromagnetic fields of individual lines interact, reducing total capacity. Underwater alternating current transmission has worse challenges than underground transmission. ◊ You can’t make the wires thicker than they are to get greater throughput because alternating current has a strong tendency to flow near the surface of metal conductors, so making them thicker adds a lot of weight and not much transmission capacity. ◊ The last bit of the challenge is that frequency is hard to change, so any alternating current transmission must be between two grids operating at the same frequency. That’s a lot of engineering compromises to deal with, but alternating current is obviously economically viable for transmitting electricity long distances, so these aren’t deal breakers in most situations. Until 1954, there was no real alternative to this set of compromises. That’s the year that the problem of reliably changing the voltage of direct current up and down was cracked. ABB, a major player in this space, built a submerged 96 kilometer HVDC transmission line between the Swedish mainland and an island. Direct current doesn’t have most of the limitations of alternating current for transmission. ◊ While it’s limited to about 800 kV, not dissimilar from AC, the way it’s constructed you effectively get double the voltage of AC. ◊ Underground and underwater lines don’t lose effectiveness for transmission compared to aboveground lines. No electromagnetic field is created by direct current to interact with other wires, the ground, or water. ◊ The wires can be arbitrarily thick because direct current doesn’t tend to flow along the surface. ◊ Direct current has no frequency, so it’s easy to connect two grids at different frequencies and use electronics to match frequency when it’s converted back to AC. HVDC is sometimes referred to as asynchronous transmission for this reason. But direct current has still had two limitations that prevented it from taking over the world, at least until recently. The first is that the voltage converters were a lot more expensive than the simple, physical alternating voltage converters. DC converters are electronic in nature, and as I pointed out in the 7 Reasons article, Electronics outperform the physical. That’s true in this case too, with DC transformers plummeting in cost. If you look around, almost every electrical device you can see runs on DC internally and the power blocks convert AC from the plug to DC for the device. That’s been made cheaply possibly by electronics, and it’s true for transmission-scale transformers as well. The second problem is that circuit breakers for high-voltage direct current were ineffective. Circuit breakers are components that protect electrical systems from excess current. If you have an older home, you probably have a fuse box. If you have a newer home, you probably have electronic circuit breakers, typically a row or two of black switches in a panel. Mechanical breakers for DC were too slow while semiconductor breakers were fast enough but had 30% power loss. This has been hard to overcome, but it’s been licked recently with a new generation of hybrid breakers. Why is this important again? HVDC lines always deliver more of the power put into them regardless of the distance that the electricity travels. But the big reason this is important is that it’s cheaper at longer distances and at very short distances underwater and underground. “Over a certain distance, the so called ‘break-even distance’ (approx. 600 – 800 km), the HVDC alternative will always provide the lowest cost. “The break-even distance is much smaller for subsea cables (typically about 50 km) than for an overhead line transmission.” The diagram is interesting. DC terminals will always be more expensive than AC terminals simply because they have to have the components to transform DC voltage as well as convert the DC to AC. But the DC voltage conversion and circuit breakers have been dropping in price. The break-even price continues to drop. Right now on modern grids, transmission losses are 7% to 15% with aboveground transmission. With DC transmission, they are a lot lower, and they remain low if you run the cables underwater or underground. The NIMBY factor That last point is worth drawing out a bit, as it’s directly related to the use of HVDC for renewables. A key element in the successful use of renewables is continent-scale grids. Energy has to flow from low-carbon hydro in areas with low biomass far north, far south, across deserts, from areas with lots of sun nearer the equator, and from wind offshore or in windy plain areas to large urban and industrial areas. In the USA, the best wind and sun resources are in places a long way from most of the people. With alternating current, that means huge towers and lines marching across long distances. And that means a lot of people protesting because they hate change, they don’t want their views spoiled, they think that their land is somehow special and shouldn’t have a tower on it, or because they have an irrational fear of the electromagnetic spectrum. I’ve written a lot about NIMBYs in the past — in fact, the article linked was my second article ever on CleanTechnica and published close to 4 years ago. Much of what I said holds for transmission projects as well. HVDC holds the promise of being able to dodge this problem in a lot of places. Where it’s impossible to overcome local outrage at the thought of big metal towers, it is possible to bury the line for a few miles. It’s more expensive, but it’s a way to dodge a lot of the problems. And the last thing you can do with HVDC that’s interesting is that you can string it on existing AC tower paths, effectively making your existing, accepted transmission route deliver a lot more electricity to highly populated areas. That typically avoids NIMBY complaints too. The archipelago factor The other place this makes a difference is for populaces spread over islands. Indonesia is a good example. It has 261 million people living on 6,000 of its 17,500 islands. And a lot of those islands depend on oil and diesel generation. Japan is similarly challenged. While most people think of it as a country, or if they know more think of it as three or four big islands, it actually has 6,852 islands with 430 of them populated. Japan is looking at two major HVDC power links to Asia to enable it to break free of its need to generate and manage all of its own electricity in a limited geographical area with significant terrain challenges. And lots of people think of the British Isles as a few big islands, but it’s actually well over 6,000 islands with close to 200 permanently occupied. Denmark has a mainland, but also 1,000 islands with 70 of them inhabited. This pattern repeats itself globally. Remember that HVDC doesn’t lose effectiveness when submerged, unlike AC transmission. Remember also that renewables are more and less effective in different places, often different places than the people who need the electricity. And remember that offshore wind energy has one of the highest capacity factors available, with 50% as a usual number and 60% not unusual. When HVDC pays for itself with lines 50 km long, the HVDC revolution of cheap transformers and effective breakers starts to look like a miracle. So that’s HVDC and why the electricity you use will increasingly come through HVDC transmission. It gets more power delivered over longer distances, it’s increasingly economically viable, it works better underground, it works better underwater, it can dodge NIMBYs, and it reduces the challenge of variable renewable generation. It’s one of the top innovations in the world of electricity, and it’s coming soon to a grid near you. Future articles will look at specific projects, take a closer look at the economics, and explore some of the factors touched on in this article in greater depth. The set of innovations that have led to HVDC transmission being increasingly competitive and effective in places where AC is less effective are going to enable greater growth of renewables globally. As one last data point, China’s State Grid Corporation has seriously put forward the idea of building a global HVDC grid to tie all of the wind and solar power in the world together by 2050. The potential for low-loss, long-distance movement of electricity is enormous. The larger the grid, the less storage will be required. As always, I’ll be paying close attention to comments. Where I’ve made mistakes, correct me. If you know of interesting HVDC projects, let me know, especially in non-English language countries where my ability to find them on the internet is challenged. About the Author Michael Barnard works with startups, existing businesses and investors to identify opportunities for significant bottom line growth in the transforming low-carbon economy. He regularly publishes analyses of low-carbon technology and policy in sites including Newsweek, Slate, Forbes, Huffington Post, Quartz, CleanTechnica and RenewEconomy, with some of his work included in textbooks. Third-party articles on his analyses and interviews have been published in dozens of news sites globally and have reached #1 on Reddit Science. Much of his work originates on Quora.com, where Mike has been a Top Writer annually since 2012. He's available for consultation, speaking engagements and Board positions. Oh. Sorry gorski, I didn't realize that this was too much for you to comprehend.
WTF are you on? Please, tell me, so I can avoid it like the plague - the darn thing took away the last of your semi-functioning so called brain cells... Mama mia, the guy is beneath contempt... or was it "lost even for pity"...???
As I was "pushing" Rimac's Concept One or new and coming Jaguar EV sedan or those EV vans or the train etc. etc. And that's your "brain" just "connecting the dots", as in "science", "truth" and so on, is it? Can't be that somebody is interested in the principle, breakthrough, novum per se, innovation etc. but one just must be "tribal", "pushing" as in "interest based", as in "selling" and somehow "earning from what one writes" and whatnot. Talk about "pushing", as in "projecting" one's persona into another and accusing him of being nothing but himself, everywhere one looks one only sees himself... Pathetic! Me? WTF?!? Really, you really need to go back top ABC, then one day, in some 10 years or so, we can get to elementary logic and then - after you get some fundamental tools for thinking - we shall show you what you just wrote here and you will die laughing your head off... Berserk! This guy is on fire!!! As in psychodelic fire!!! P.S. It's Nikola, you twit!
My thoughts on electric cars are that the technology is promising, but has a bit more to go in terms of advancing. For me, the driving force would be mileage and weather. Two areas in which electric cars are improving on, but have not yet fully matched or surpassed gas cars. For example, on my older car, on a full tank of gas, I can travel from here to Canada and back at least 4x without needing to fill up (400 miles x 2 = 800 miles round trip X 4 = 3,200 miles). Now during the winter, I often will not drive as far, but I do drive harder given the weather can put 6 inches of snow down on the ground and I'll still need to drive through that with the weather below zero. To date, electric cars have yet to match my old Daewoo Leganza, which is nearly 17 years old.
That is quite an impressive car... When I first read "Daewoo" I burst out laughing till I read up on the specs.
I really wish they still kept making them and it really sucks that the company went out of business. Luckily, parts are not an issue because they nearly never break down, but mostly because GM bought them out and released a car based on the design for a short while (Chrysler also had a shared design). As a result, the general stuff can still be found or at least compatible replacements. The only time I found an issue was when I had to replace the electric power window motor, once.
"Tesla vs. Tesla: The Juice In Your Car Will Increasingly Come Through HVDC, Edison’s Preferred Current" This is just a headline which distorts facts out of context and is not suitable to heat up Tesla versus Edison! Tesla is associated with electric cars because of the use of AC motors better said three phase AC! HVDC is only economic when it comes to far distances. The global percentage of DC transmissions will hardly increase The author better had left Nikola alone. He cannot beat him.
@ any idiot that bought a Tesla Semi after December 15th. Spoiler Tesla is prohibiting commercial drivers from using its Supercharger stations 21 comments The company is concerned about crowding at the stations By Andrew Liptak@AndrewLiptak Dec 17, 2017, 11:14am EST share tweet Linkedin If you plan to buy a Tesla for your job, you won’t be able to use the company’s Supercharger stations anymore. The company recently released a new policy called Supercharger Fair Use, which prohibits new commercial drivers from using the red-and-white charging ports. Tesla has been working to expand its network of charging stations, announcing in April that it hoped to have more than 10,000 Supercharger stations by the end of 2017. The expansion is needed to alleviate heavy traffic at the stations, which have become a congestion point for drivers. Last year, the company announced fees for charging, and said that it will begin charging drivers an additional fee if they leave their cars at the stations after they’ve finished charging. Tesla says that the stations are intended for drivers who don’t have ready options for charging at home or at work, and that when they’re not used for this purpose, “it negatively impacts the availability of Supercharging services for others.” Thus, the new policy says that for vehicles purchased after December 15th, drivers who plan to use their vehicles as a taxi, for ridesharing, commercial delivery or transportation, governmental purposes, or other commercial ventures won’t be permitted to use the free stations. The company tracks usage and driver behavior, and if they find that someone isn’t complying with the policy, they might be asked to stop, and simply limit or block one’s vehicle from the stations in certain instances. The policy went into effect on Friday, December 15th, 2017. A Tesla spokesperson said that the company does “encourage the use of Teslas for commercial purposes,” and that they will work with drivers to find other places to charge their vehicles. The policy carve out an exception, saying that some stations might be excluded, depending on local circumstances. Update December 17th, 2017, 2:30PM: A Tesla spokesperson clarified that the policy applies to new Tesla drivers as of December 15th, 2017. Supercharger Fair Use Policy Introduction We are continually expanding our global network of Supercharger stations to enable personal long distance travel and to provide a charging solution for those without immediate access to home or workplace charging, thereby accelerating the widespread adoption of electric vehicles. When Superchargers are used beyond their intended purpose, it negatively impacts the availability of Supercharging services for others. Supercharger Fair Use To help ensure that Superchargers are available for their intended use, we ask that you not charge your vehicle using a Supercharger if your vehicle is being used: as a taxi; for ridesourcing or ridesharing (through Uber, Lyft or similar services); to commercially deliver or transport goods; for government purposes; or for any other commercial venture. If you charge your vehicle in a manner that does not comply with this Supercharger Fair Use Policy, we may ask you to modify this behavior. We may also take additional action to protect the availability of Superchargers for their intended purpose, such as limiting or blocking your vehicle’s ability to use Supercharger stations. This Policy applies to all Superchargers worldwide and all Tesla vehicles purchased, either new or used, whether from Tesla or a third party, after December 15, 2017. Tesla may choose to exclude certain Supercharger stations or occasional trips from the scope of this Policy, such as to accommodate specific local circumstances. Charging Alternatives We encourage the commercial use of Tesla vehicles while using appropriate charging solutions. Please reach out to your local sales contact to explore vehicle and charging options that suit your needs. For questions related to home charging, please contact [email protected]. More at https://www.tesla.com/about/legal?#supercharger-fair-use https://www.tesla.com/about/legal?#supercharger-fair-use https://www.tesla.com/about/legal?#supercharger-fair-use
And I thought it was bad enough when my pc and phone tracked me, now our cars will track us too. (rumors of your new refrigerator tracking too)
All of them, Joe, even if you switch the tracking off in your smartphone etc. - as proven with Google etc. Yes, Yen - it is much more complex than that, since Tesla introduced a whole host of innovations (his own, not of his associates, sold as his own), which series of patents single handedly started a second industrial revolution, going on to this day and are likely to continue for a while to come, with wireless transfers of energy and so on... Besides, Edison could not have done anything right, by comparison to Tesla, who did it all by himself! In his own time, on his own terms, solving all the problems there and then, not waiting for a century and subsequent tech improvements that did not exist at that time. Let us just remember how Tesla's early detection system (radar) was not accepted by the US gov/military because Edison was sitting on one of the boards which deliberated which project was worth investing in... How many humans have needlessly died because of Edison's "understanding" of things... http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla The comparison and the journalist "skew" is quite ridiculous, actually.... (Silly old troll, JFK, really pathetic! )
Well maybe I do not want my car to track me? My next car might be a '67 dodge, a petrol burning gas pig that'll get me where I want to go and get me there on my own business. Gas will be cheaper in the future because all those green loving tree huggers will be driving EV's