What do you think about Electric Cars?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Aug 24, 2017.

?

Will your next car be electric?

  1. My next car will be electric

  2. I’ll wait several years for prices to drop

  3. I’m not convinced by them, I’ll buy conventional

  4. I am undecided, far more info is required

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Enthousiast

    Enthousiast MDL Tester

    Oct 30, 2009
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    Actually they intend to be the most clean society soon, we'll see :)
     
  2. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
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    It's up to the Chinese govt. Not like anybody can complain one way or the other, if they do, they may find themselves locked up in jail and becoming a liver donor in the black market
     
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  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Nonsense, classic derailment tactics, so one doesn't do anything, while pointing a finger at the other.

    What actually happened is that the USofA threw a stone, created a problem and then ran away, so they are not seen as the culprit, which they certainly are! They are at it for longest and hardest and are way ahead of everyone at exploiting the planet and future generations mercilessly!!!

    As above: 25% of energy used by 5% of the population, cities in the desert, "gas guzzlers" are the norm, not taxed properly etc. ect. So, the "idea" is to blame the others and on the basis of "they are not changing at all", "we" (the USofA) are going to carry on regardless, as always, at the expense of the planet and everybody else! Marvellous "leadership", "balls" to "admire", "spine" beyond reproach, "face" worthy of the soles of my hiking boots...

    Kids can see right through that "argument"... :rolleyes:
     
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  4. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

    Oct 25, 2015
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    Because he is not smart enough to understand anything they say ? :dunno:
    Ironically that is where most of the rare metals used in the EV motors is mined and refined.
     
  5. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    Is that anything like asking what the most common phrase in the french language is ?
    I give up
     
  6. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

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    #526 Yen, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
    The matter AC vs DC is a bit more complex. Transformation of DC is hard to realize, for instance.
    And one needs to differentiate at least 2 different perspectives transport and consumer.
    Besides of that some things have changed since 1888....(technical progresses and the ability to generate higher voltages).

    Generally it means the loss (heat) is proportional to the square amount of current (I). Since the power is the product of current and voltage (P = V * I) it makes sense to use high voltages to transport.
    P(loss) = R * I^2
    P(loss) = R * (P/V)^2
    P and R are fixed conditions

    One notices voltage has inversely proportional impact on power loss.
    Using higher voltages has advantage for both DC and AC transport.

    The major advantages of AC transport are:

    -easy to generate (natural product from circular movement)
    -easy to transform (change voltage) as you have mentioned
    -easy to interrupt

    Anyway most devices are using DC and hence each of those has got an own separate transformer. And for storage one needs DC.

    DC for transport has got more interest since it is possible to transform three phase AC into DC with little loss only (semi-conductor supported converter).

    Anyway HVDC has been realized as point-to-point transmission only. Sufficiently fast switching tech is still lacking to realize it besides of a p-to-p connection.

    The product of power plant generator is AC. Wind turbines rotate also...
    The direct product of solar panel is DC, though.

    Since an electric motor is so to say backwards to a generator AC is most 'original'...
     
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  7. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
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    There are many A/C capacitors for temp electrical storage, Your residential and commercial 120/240 single phase furnace and air conditioner units have these. The A/C D/C things today are more complicated then they were in the early days. D/C motors serve a purpose for variable speed requirements, and it only takes a couple simple rectifiers to convert A/C to D/C. Our pc's use PWM (pulse width modulation) fans, which are D/C and switch very fast (on/off) from the motherboard to modulate the fan speeds for our processors
     
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  8. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @Yen: You called it. IGBTs we invented in the early 70s. There were problems with lockup, but they were solved.

    @Joe_C: Yup. PWM motor control has been around for a while. Switching regulator power supplies use the same technology.

    The problem with switching DC is the voltage and current. Putting bipolar transistors in parallel is not a good practice because
    of the differences in Hfe (One transistor will tend to take the entire load and usually fry.)

    MOSFETS are different in that you can parallel them. With more devices in parallel, you can handle more current (theoretically speaking)

    But these devices almost always require a snubber circuit to operate.

    See here: https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...Todd/047957f5f1ccd47c8511570bee9640a656662ff5

    Here's some good information about Power Transmission.

    http://www.elp.com/articles/print/v...pointers/primer-on-transmission-ac-vs-dc.html

    http://www.theenergycollective.com/roger_rethinker/204396/ac-versus-dc-powerlines

    Now what does this have to do with EVs? Not much except for the HVDC technology being useful for vehicle design.

    We still have the problem of the batteries and the storage of energy in the vehicles.

    It's getting better and it will continue to get better. ;)
     
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  9. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    JFK, you never had a chance, as I know how society operates...

    Here: https://chargedevs.com/newswire/uk-...e-and-100-million-for-ev-purchase-incentives/

    UK budget includes £400 million for charging infrastructure and £100 million for EV purchase incentives

    Or more: https://electrek.co/2017/12/19/egeb-india-subsidy-solar-china-carbon-more/

    India offers subsidy support for solar manufacturing, China launches carbon tax market, more

    Who cares what you are blabbering - we are on our way to that future, you & your lot being on board or not...
     
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  10. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    Who cares about the UK ? I don't since I don't live there and never in my lifetime will. :dunno:
     
  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Sure, autism to the masses, why not... as if that was the point...

    Madre mia, che cretino...
     
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  12. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #532 Yen, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017

    Hmm. Capacitors (natively) work as such with DC only. They store the electric charge, the corresponding energy statically, that capacity is stored electric charge per volt (Coulomb/Volt = Farad).

    On AC it acts like an AC resistor with frequency dependent impedance.
    Capacitors need DC as 'food'. It closes after charging. (f= 0 Hz approximates infinite resistance)

    I think DC electric motors for EVs don't have a future. Somewhere else..ok
    (BTW..BLDC, a brushless DC motor is contrary to its name a synchronous perma-magnetic 3p AC motor per se...)

    The converter controlled three-phase permanent-magnet synchronous motors unify most advantages. Also when it comes to (re)generating electricity from decelerating.

    At larger motors one might use 3 windings 120° orientation (their current also 120° phase-delayed) to replace the perma-magnet

    AC motors don't have that much wear as a DC motor (wiper contact....brushes..commutator )

    The converter today in EVs can do two jobs well already.

    -transforms DC from battery to AC (overrun mode)
    -and they work as rectifier at recuperation (generator mode) to deliver charging current DC.

    But as MJ mentioned correctly the break point is the battery (energy storage)...it will have a huge impact on cost-benefit calculations and if EVs can become established this time.
     
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  13. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    ESPECIALLY if you are a representative of their culture.
     
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #534 gorski, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  15. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    Yes, there are stupid ones as well which match you mentality. Most of those seem to reside in California.
    Every time I see one of these I think of you.





    Awww, screw it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMHjq7Pw6tY&list=PLa8S4GilqogQRwblg-wi17_-z5jhPuxVV
     
  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Yeah, you are a screw up and you are the only one who can't see it... :rolleyes:
     
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  17. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    :eek: You mean you saw some intelligence in those videos ? :eek:

    Wow..... Just wow.
     
  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Heh, that is a good example of your IQ and humour-lessness... :D
     
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  19. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    Oh, so now you are trying to be a comedian ?

    Word of advise, don't give up your day job.
     
  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

    Yep, you got it, that was the point I made... :rolleyes: :D :D :D
     
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