What do you think about Electric Cars?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Aug 24, 2017.

?

Will your next car be electric?

  1. My next car will be electric

  2. I’ll wait several years for prices to drop

  3. I’m not convinced by them, I’ll buy conventional

  4. I am undecided, far more info is required

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    Yeah, I know, it's hard this....

    Take a Valium, have a nap...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    3,315
    1,948
    120
    In gorsky's world, nobody will step in because the State will run all utilities. That means only the top elite politburo will have access to air conditioning after a hot day.... and everybody else can plug in their little State sponsored electro-cars
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    Actually, it is the other way round: in your utter cluelessness as to how certain things of general importance and strategic value can be run by the state, you only see it as "private or die", black/white issue, as uniformed as you are...

    And as it frequently happens, your blessed ignorance gives rise to aggressive arrogance, trying to appear "authoritative", while I am laughing my butt off here at such ridiculously narrow minded brain-washed rubbish... :p
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

    Nov 30, 2014
    3,450
    704
    120
    dude what world do u live in? of course someone will always control and regulated theirs nothing free in this world guy!!!
     
  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    11,847
    12,242
    340
    Prices are factors which belong to the known....they can be calculated.

    Here (Germany) for instance we'd pay 3.90 Euros / 100 kilometers (assumption the e-car needs 13 KWh/100 KM)....the electricity price at home is around 0.30 Euro / KWh

    One liter gasoline is 1.35 Euros. A modern economical small car takes only 4 liter of gasoline / 100 KM. Means 5.40 Euros / 100 KM.
    You 'only' save 1.50 / 100 KM....if you drive an old engine you need 10 liters of gasoline / 100 KM and you'd save 9.60 Euros every 100 KM.

    As you can see the one who uses a small modern 'gasoline car' already does not save much money at the fuel...

    30000 Pounds are around 35000 Euros. This is the cheapest price for a basic Volkswagen (e-Golf is around 32000 now).... but it only has a range of 240 KM/charge, though.

    The cheapest 'gasoline Golf' is only 18.000 Euro.
    Sure the e version has far more horse power, BUT you can compare anyway, since both are the cheapest versions available.

    Here the question again! Why should one..or better how can somebody who drives a 'small' car already move to the e-version which has more horse power (which is not needed/preferred either way), which has far less of distance/load and almost a double price at purchase...?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    Of course, Yen, we're not there yet, with battery prices and tech still at their beginnings when it comes to vehicles. We all know it's not yet cheap and for everybody - but my point was that the prices are "falling" and tech advancing significantly! And that Kona certainly should be priced against similar cars...

    Factor in the subsidies to the fossil fuel corps, Yen - the biggest polluters are well kept in their dominant positions by the state.

    Then, factor in pollution and what it does to our kids and life as such...

    Then, factor in serious fluctuations of oil, as the supply dwindles away...

    Then, factor in the massive oil spills and cleanup, the loss of life etc. etc.

    Then, things are different in various countries: diesel is more expensive in the UK than petrol, for lots of good reasons (asthma etc.).

    I think you will find that the simple maths one usually deploys is not good enough for this kind of equation...

    MS_User, honestly, man, give it up, you're gonna hurt yourself...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    It seems to me most of you do not actually read the relevant stuff... or remember it if you do... whatever the reason...

    Get a load of this...

    https://www.greencarreports.com/new...promise-lower-cost-better-stability?fbfanpage

    "XNRGI claims its new silicon-wafer Power Chip cells have four times the energy density of conventional lithium-ion cells and cost half as much.

    Lithium batteries already use silicon anodes. XNRGI's technology, which has been in development for 15 years, imprints a 20-by-20 micron honeycomb onto commodity cells, then coats them with lithium and other materials to form the cathodes of millions of "microbatteries." The company says the wafers can accommodate various lithium chemistries.

    Using the silicon wafers solves several challenges, the company says. Each wafer structure, houses 36 million of these microbatteries on each 12-inch chip. The tiny active batteries carry a small enough charge and has enough space between cells to avoid the dendrite growth that causes traditional batteries to lose capacity over time, and eventually cause shorts that can lead to fires. XNRGI expects its batteries should last three times as long as conventional lithium batteries.

    The company says the chips can safely be stacked to store up to 100 kilowatt-hours of electricity.

    This resistance to dendrite growth can also reduce the need to slow down chargers when batteries get close to full. Today fast charging is measured in how fast a car can get to 80 percent of a charge, based on the power of the charger.

    Tesla aside, the most powerful chargers—and the cars designed to accept the fastest charges—can operate at about 150 kilowatts, or an 80 percent charge in about 20 minutes. The quickest-charging cars coming in the next year will cut that time in half. That's still more than twice as long as it takes to fill up with gas. Speeding up that last 20 percent can go a long way toward making electric cars more competitive with gas.



    [​IMG]
    XNRGI Powercell silicon wafer battery design (from company video)


    XNRGI claims an energy density of 400 watt-hours per kilogram (1,600 watt-hours per liter) for its batteries, more than twice as much energy per pound as the best batteries on the road today.

    The other benefit XNRGI claims for its cells is reduced cost. The company says it can build the cells for $150 per kilowatt hour, regardless of the application. It has already sold 600 of them for grid storage applications, but the company says they are just affordable for electronics.

    Since the batteries can be made in existing silicon wafer plants, XNRGI claims the cost of a battery factory can be reduced by 95 percent."

    Now, let that sink in for a minute...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    11,847
    12,242
    340
    I just wanted to mention that if you increase the price for gasoline via CO2 tax 'one', better said the government, has to make sure that there is a basic consumption which has to be determined.

    Let's say an average / 100 KM and for instance one's distance to the workplace multiplied by workdays of a year. These extra costs as extra taxes have to be considered at tax equalisation so somebody who drives an economically friendly gasoline car already won't be extra charged so the one can save money at all to afford an e-car one time at all.

    There is a basic mechanism that applies to all new tech inventions:
    New tech is expensive at first place and 'only' the ones who have extra money left can jump on that train.

    Later then the tech gets cheaper, because more units are produced, the tech gets optimized....
    BUT during this process you cannot extra-charge the ones with lesser money/income!

    There is even a reason why they already have smaller cars with less consumption.

    To make it possible that they can jump on the green train as well they need to have money left at all.
    The more they have left the sooner e-cars become affordable for them....

    Besides of that we have all time high rents in cities etc, etc. Especially there e-cars would have a huge benefit, but only if the people living there could afford them at all.....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    So, where do you "factor in" the diesel extra pollution, bad health, premature deaths, suffering of untold millions - how does that work?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    3,996
    4,523
    120
    Just blame it on Trump... :laie:

    :eekout:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    Yeah, Trumps are everywhere...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    Here, let this sink in for a minute...

    "Globally we are subsidizing the fossil fuel business to the tune of $5.3 trillion a year. Why do you think we're giving these companies massive tax breaks when their products put our future in jeopardy? What can we do to end it?"

     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    3,315
    1,948
    120
    #1113 Joe C, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
    That video is a farce. The idiot is over the top in being narrow minded
    How do you suppose we will build electro cars without fossil fuels? (oil) Or even make a multitude of things without oil?
    Cars will have wheels in my life time and along with many other parts they still need lubrication. Even all the plastic parts not only in cars but everything else in this earth requires oil derivatives to make. Even the asphalt we make the roads with require bulk oil.
    Women still will need make up and finger nail polish too. Oil is into so many things in our daily lives that it will never stop being produced.
    How do you propose the way to insulate the wiring on EV's with out the use of oil to make the plastic coating to insulate the wiring?

    We would have to go back and live like we were in the 17th century, without the use of fossil fuels today. (and even back then they did use some fossil fuel too... oil lamps)
    Maybe we should go back even farther.... . Because they used pitch (tar) to waterproof their wooden ships, and I am not going to research when they started to use tar on wooden ships
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    #1114 gorski, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    3,315
    1,948
    120
    #1115 Joe C, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
    Everything your posting requires manufacturing to make bio-plastics and such, and that manufacturing process requires ....duh?
    I should not have to tell you the obvious.

    From your wire insulation link using PVC:
    https://www.hunker.com/12271617/ingredients-of-pvc-pipe-manufacturing

    Ignorance should be no excuse for you. Even if we stop using petrol for cars and diesel fuel altogether... we will still need oil refineries to make products in everything we use in our lives for today and tomorrow. This is why your video is a farce
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    11,847
    12,242
    340
    Ermm..
    Same would be where do I 'factor in' the death of a child every 10 minutes because of malnutrition...

    My post only considered the one's who already drive a small gasoline car with low consumption. And the upcoming CO2 tax on gasoline.
    Posting about something special does not mean there aren't other things which are wrong.

    Speaking of diesel we should not forget that people got utterly fooled. They have been told to buy an economical friendly car presenting fake and manipulated exhaust values.
    The damage done here is huge and people who have got a diesel probably don't have any money left soon to go for e-cars...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    #1117 gorski, Oct 25, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. Torero137

    Torero137 MDL Novice

    Jan 9, 2020
    4
    0
    0
    The current problem with electric cars:

    -The process of producing the batteries leaves toxic waste and a negative impact to the environment

    -The power you are using to recharge the battery is often generated by coal or natural gas (in the US)

    So there is a legitimate question of whether it's net positive on the environment as they're currently produced and used.
     
  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    The exhaust pipes of ICE cars are certainly of a much bigger negative impact than that...

    And we can improve on energy production input - in fact, we are constantly improving on it...

    Renewable sources of energy are constantly increasing in all major countries on Earth, thank fook!!!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,422
    879
    120
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...