Why should 'the answer' wait until your heartbeat stops? One dogma of religions is that they promise salvation after death or in a future life, but Buddha and Jesus for instance became enlightened in their lifetime...there must be 'something' else.... If life is permanent then there is no afterlife (when has it begun being permanent?). If life is not permanent, there is no afterlife as well. What should differentiate life 1 from life 2 exept yourself and would you be able to if not alive? After the end of all illusions
hm. what is the use of an old walrus? i must confess when i saw my wild red cat eat a rabbit, i have shrugged my shoulders.. i have thought about afterlife, my good old cat used to start to eat at the head, when it reached the crotch, it had to decide to go left or right.. after his orgy there was just one rabbit leg left.. because it could not eat the rest.. tompidompidom. and i thought; now how will that rabbit go to heaven? i must confess i dunno..
That is the problem with Paradise/Jannah (or Jennet), when you describe it in those "holly crap books" in such terms that one would dearly love to end up there ONLY as a bodily fully functional being (a man, if you read the Islamic ones )... I mean, no one gives a fook that we are actually going there as "spirit" or "essence" of who we are (read "were" ) - so, a legitimate question is: "Who is doing that and to what end?!?"
I don’t know if it is written in a scripture, the Quran for instance, or if it is propagated by fanatics only to create suicide bombers. Btw there are females as well. Well each epoch has its religious conflicts, the Christians had the holy inquisition, and the fanatic Muslims are currently attracting negative attention. Religion or not, the point is that the identification with wrong values is able to kill nations / peoples / individuals in the name of 'truth'. There is one basic mechanism humankind is struggling with for centuries. Truth is not defensible. What are defended are thoughts that are declared to be truth. I prefer to say the end of all illusions even though you are right it is all about ‘truth’. Either way illusions have the same attribute they ‘soon’ unveil what they are. (What is it worth when you come to heaven and you have lost 'consciousness' and you cannot have a look at those 72 virgins, lol) “Somebody has fooled you, sorry, no virgins for you, dork!” In other words: "The kingdom of god / Allah is within you." Translated:" If you have not the 72 virgins now, you never get them elsewhere."...
Yeah but if your very poor family gets money every month after you blow yourself up... Kinda comes close... And if this isn't dealt with - then, this Paradise/Jennet fable is gonna carry on... :fuyou2: For women who blow themselves up - Allah/Jahve/God himself awaits...
If I understand you correctly, are you talking about 'quantum immortality'... the idea that you can never really die because there is always a universe where you continue to live. It's not a conclusion that I am particularly happy about, but one I cannot find a good reason to reject.
It is the blue part (as an example) that changed my pure analytical 'scientific' mind which I had on peak right after study... the question is what is the difference of the 'universe' and 'one' who continues to live 'there'... in other words try to annihilate the universe, after success one could continue to talk about 'death'... Time and space (continuum) belong to the 'blue part' as well...life is exciting / beautiful...
I could never express this premise in a better way. I do agree, fully. Every brain has it's own experience in life hence their own definition of what is true, unfortunately, the vast majority is still influenced by religion only. Hopefully one day people will base their lives on science.
Most of what the majority of scientists believe is based on the acceptance of Human testimony. The different branches of science are specialties. Most scientists are experts in there own field and laymen with regard to scientific knowledge outside there particular field. In other words a biologist believes certain things about physics because the physicists told him that it was so. Not because he has scientific grounds for those beliefs himself. Obviously a truth seeker will try to filter out reliable testimony from unreliable testimony and this needs to be done with careful and painstaking rational analysis. I have enough evidence to claim that I am part of the universe don't I, just as the sun is part of the universe. A combination of atoms and processes. if there is clear evidence that the soul is physically evident then it will be part of the physical world. You can not break a position that folds like water and fits into a truth shaped jug. Things are proven wrong every day and as they are proven wrong, I will alter my position. We know enough however, to understand our place in the universe. I recognize that I am nothing more than a compilation of atoms and processes. When these atoms can no longer facilitate these processes they stop. i'm gone. We have evidence for this. We are beings of material and when our constructs can no longer function our processes fall apart. We will all one day return to the earth in the form of our base elements. More can be read here
Unfortunately science leaves enough room for 'bad' actions as well. The blue part applies to science as well....and I am saying that as scientist. When you go back in history where it was Church versus science one can recognize it was actually a fight of who is the 'real' owner of truth! But what was the real point of the 'fight'? 2 different ideas of what truth IS. Science and religions are products of humans, of human cultures and both reflect all the weaknesses and strengths of the individuals who are involved. The 'maturity' has to grow in each individual and as result science and religion will grow or another 'product' comes up that leaves both behind. There is actually no big difference of a scientist who develops nuclear weapons or abuses people in a clinical trial or suicide bombers who act in the name of their religion... Consider how a person's ideology must be when one decides that those are goals that should be realized...and it were always the (some) individuals who attracted positive attention with their maturity. Neither science nor religion give the answer who those people were / are, though. The answers come from their adherents.
I agree this time as well, however I highlight the importance/value of science per se. I'm talking about the transcendence of scientific knowledge as primary source of the most assertive knowledge produced by human kind. This is undeniable as we can see in solid scientific theories such as Maxwell's electromagnetic knowledge and its irrefutable products, i.e. technologies like television, radio communication, etc. all of them the foundation of modern societies and civilization. Bad persons exists, for different reasons/causes and they are the culprits when religion and science go against humanity. In a context of "What's the meaning of life" none of both bodies of knowledge will ever achieve the ultimate truth, but science imao is the best we have, as seen on mankind endeavors.
Thanks for the link. I have nothing to argue against it as long as one considers (like I have mentioned at the other thread already) that evidence is just a conclusive chain of patterns of thoughts that is temporarily long enough that one can agree with 'the evidence'. The chain becomes 'short' when I consider that the atoms or molecules or cells depending on which science one refers to (Physics, Chemistry, Biology) are exchanged during life, but not 'myself' as a conscious being as long as one is 'alive'. Also there where one draws a line of oneself and the universe. Just some 'brainstorming' to show up how 'short' this chain is... Where IS the universe and where starts it and where ends it? Is the barrier not just illusionary? If it is infinite can it have an end? If it is infinitely wide it has to be infinitely deep as well.... I mean 'soul' is just an expression that points to a principle beyond appearance. The question is not does a soul exist, the question is is there a principle beyond appearance? So I have replaced 'soul' with just another expression to illustrate that the intellect remains in a loop....'self' is just another one, it's appearance not 'beyond'. To claim here for evidence using an instrument that is not able to break the loop is 'unreasonable'.... I have posted to illustrate that 'evidence' is not the place of self-awareness....where one can say : "Thanks, I have now the evidence, I know 'it' now". "Things are proven wrong every day and as they are proven wrong, I will alter my position. We know enough however, to understand our place in the universe." Isn't it a valid question why the latter should be excluded from the former 'things'...I mean who says that it is immune from to be proven wrong 'one' time....
Sure, I finally became one of those and I am glad that I have my profession there. Anyway the meaning of science changed during my life. And the meaning of religions also. Religious Scriptures actually become 'fatal' when taken literally. Science has to be taken literally. Science has the intellect as major instrument, scriptures try to address beyond of thoughts. Judging / categorizing is always the intellect, though.
I think there two ways to look at it one way is non-spirit way which make it simple answer just live and enjoy life there no meaning of life in this way, its doesn't matter when we die just enjoy the time being evolution made us come up with this question to avoid killing ourself and come with answer which everyone for himself made it up and believe in feeling level the spirit way is is "EnLight" this Shi**y World even there not a chance to this world in term continuous and success to be good by learning the true, enjoy moment and love its more fight between NULLNESS and FULLNESS NULLNESS is believing we are just matter no soul no god ...
Is it a continuous incessant exercise of the ego's need to redefine itself ? .. or do we on occasion deliberately hit pause through stillness of the mind and observe/experience something which will never be explained by our current vocabulary ?
I strongly believe in evolution but also believe science is limited to this universe there no final answer for god or whatever in science and never will like parallel universe can't be sight with science since there no integration between parallel universes