Which music format do you use?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Jan 31, 2017.

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Which music format do you use? (For MAC etc pick the equivalent)

  1. MP3 128/160 kbps

    11 vote(s)
    12.4%
  2. MP3 198/256 kbps

    9 vote(s)
    10.1%
  3. MP3 320 kbps

    29 vote(s)
    32.6%
  4. FLAC/WAV (CD)

    40 vote(s)
    44.9%
  1. mbpowner

    mbpowner Guest

    #101 mbpowner, Apr 29, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2017
    The best part of music is the body feeling. That's why I love my speakers. Or rather mbp but that's good enough background music for me



    Windows 7 was the most user-friendly of all ! It's strange how you say you hated windows since w7 lol - vista sucked. Vista was hella sluggish for some reason.

    Ngl though unix is way better for Android development. Gradle is heavy - I feel unix makes better use of turbo boost. Bcuz tasks are spread across all cores in windows where in unix multiple cores are only used when one core is filled up. Do you have any dev experience?

    I hate windows in general ngl ! It's so slow in general compared to my mbp, but honestly idk whether it's bcuz these windows laptops had a spinny disk whereas my mbp has a ssd my mbp is hella faster :p

    do you notice your linux to be faster than windows ?
     
  2. mbpowner

    mbpowner Guest

    #102 mbpowner, Apr 29, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2017
    I love MDL too - outstanding staff and members. So thank you for letting me participating here, you're all so chill that's what I like about you guys. MDL was special to me :wub:

    Thanks for being such a kind admin [​IMG]

    Do you tend to get moments of online addiction where you could literally be online all day like me? That's me, then I get busy suddenly and literally have no time - I'm such a last minute person lol
     
  3. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    Not really, I do not program apps or the like.
    Anyway I am familiar with several kind of things. I have programmed some macros for scientific software due to my job and I administrate scientific software.

    Here for the forums I started with BIOS modifications.
    ATM I do some CSS related work especially for the MDL classic style besides of forums admin work / moderating.
    I am familiar with several OSes means I can install them and make configurations, I know what's 'under the hood'. I do rather modify than program. I did some BASIC and own macro but I never learned a new program language such as C++ or Java, but I can understand simple parts to modify.

    I also did ROM modifications on Android over at XDA forums. My mobile is modified.
    And my mediaserver is modified to my likes. It also runs a Linux distro.

    It's faster concerning boot because it is smaller and also Linux games run actually very fine on it. During common work you hardly notice a difference, though. I am running Linux mint and dual boot it with w7, the UI is similar to w7.

    I came to it because of Android. UNIX based OSes are IMHO superior to M$ windows.
    What I like at Linux is its great variety of packages one can install, also security related matters.
    You need time to fiddle, but then you can have it individually to your personal likes. Windows is out of the box and contains nowadays 'features' I do not like at all.

    You're welcome. :)
    On 6th of May I'll have my 10 years anniversary at MDL. I never thought I'd stay such a long time at a particular community. I am voluntary here, but it is always joy to login here.
    The team works together and when having some seldom controversies we've got them managed.

    Sure there are times I don't have much time for MDL and I travel once a year and do not use the internet then at all. A time out from being online is very healthy.
    And there are periods where I am addicted, sure. :)
    Especially replying to interesting topics or interesting new works on the new forums software.

    I don't do Facebook or the like, instead of I come to MDL. I have here friends I enjoy to talk to.
     
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  4. mbpowner

    mbpowner Guest

    #104 mbpowner, Apr 30, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
    Cool, I study computer science. I do java mostly :')

    Yeah, I mean under intensive loads ? I suppose it's HDD's - they always wear over time and my computer got slower over a couple of years.

    sure, a lot of crapware that is hard to delete.

    thanks to all of you guys then:wub:

    Since you speak of friends, can I trust you withsomething personal ? I feel like I can trust you.
     
  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    Linux mint and w7 I have installed on a separate SSD each. Both also have access to the NTFS partitions of the HDD in the PC. (I have 3 disks there). Means both OSes are on SSD and you do not notice any performance loss of the OS.
    The OS of the mediaserver is installed on flash memory and has access to EXT4 (3 TB HDD) where data are stored. EXT4 is superior to NTFS concerning organisations of clusters. The HDD is a special one made for server/NAS use.

    Feel free to PM me whenever you like. I keep personal matters privately. :)
     
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  6. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    To Yen yep I agree after Windows 7 newer versions lost completely your fantastic design, I'm tired of make patch and more patch in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 I stay with Windows only for games because actually Linux works fine and maybe someday I turn Windows off definitely and stay with Linux still I hate smartphones so no issues ;)
     
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  7. mbpowner

    mbpowner Guest

    yeahhh what i really hated the most was automatic windows updates :/
     
  8. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
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    OT: I know a certain board owner calling himself admin who, also under alternative names, has owned several boards and sites, mostly connected with warez (such as the extinct BayW and Vurmin) and still owns a couple of them. I wonder if it’s the same person.

    Back on topic, I point out that too much perfection in sound reproduction may not always be a good thing, because it will appear to emphasize any imperfections in the recording. After all, not all recordings are perfect and I don’t just mean the old ones.
     
  9. mbpowner

    mbpowner Guest

    I once created a forum pretty much non-existant now, actually. It automatically defaulted to admin, as the site owner. It was a free one just for the bants when I was like 13. I forgot what it's called now LOL
     
  10. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #110 Yen, May 2, 2017
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
    mbpowner is right. 'admin' is like a default name. Ancestor(v) has become the first additional admin, after him I did. I do not know him personally but we have private email ID and I know some personal details.
    He's not that person. I know he must have a sort of partnership with tip and trick.

    You say you can eliminate imperfections at recording by imperfections (by missing details) when replaying?

    I mean there is only one reasonable definition of perfect. Perfect= original.
    Any other idea would be personal likes.

    In this regard I also think of frequency response. Does flat belong to perfect sound reproduction?
    From pure Physics yes of course.

    But does it sound best?
    At first place sound reproduction should be as good as possible. This does not exclude sound manipulation to the likes of the listener, though. :)
     
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  11. mbpowner

    mbpowner Guest

    #111 mbpowner, May 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
    "Mbpowner was right"

    :rule:
    @Yen knows it ! :cool:
     
  12. mbpowner

    mbpowner Guest

    #112 mbpowner, May 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
    Yen, how did you and ancestor claim the admin account ? Just curious.

    I was wondering whether Yen is your real name ? Sounds so pretty :wub:
     
  13. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I PM'ed you.

    Back on topic. I just found out that there are more and more sites providing hi-res audios. It's become trendy even though it's still controversial if one can hear a difference or not.
    You can get here for instance a free sampler. You have to register, though.
    https://www.highresaudio.com/

    My personal problem is that I do not listen to 'mainstream' music. Anyway all I listen I can get on CD-DA means PCM16....

    Anyway I try hires for the sake of curiosity.
     
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  14. mbpowner

    mbpowner Guest

    It costs money... ;0
     
  15. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    Nah, I meant the free sampler there..

    Some interesting in-depth stuff to read:

    http://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/dsd-vs-pcm-myth-vs-truth/
    https://mojoaudiofiles.wordpress.com/the-24-bit-delusion/

    To hear a difference it'd make sense to focus on the weaknesses of the particular format.

    For instance to focus on silent passages (bit depth of PCM and PCM/DSD comparison) and to focus on harmonic content (PCM sample rate).

    And of course on details (if available) of the particular psychoacoustic model (mp3, wmv, ACC...)
     
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  16. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I have discovered a site that offers hi-res audio formats for testing purposes for free.

    If you like to experiment with such: http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html
    Tracks are available at different formats so one can compare for instance CD-DA to even 24BIT/352.8kHz or DSD256....

    I know it exceeds the topic, but fits in best here.:)
     
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  17. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    Hi Yen good find thanks for share but when I try download J.Haydin to make test website seem no respond I can try another time anyway :)
     
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  18. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #118 Yen, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
    It did for me, maybe a temporary issue. :)
    I am continuing my tests, but what I already can say:

    -It is interesting also from the pure technical aspect. Like hey I can play such files natively. (I am scientifically curious and music lover, lol)

    -They're definitely superb recordings with dynamic range and very low noise or even hiss.
    -They are big like a 7 minute DSD256 track has around 1.5 GB
    -The process of recording, mastering and processing chain is already a different one when planning to release hires files. So they do generally sound better than CD-DA.
    -To distinguish 'lower' derivatives from such a process chain of the very same track is difficult, though.

    You normally go different when you plan to release your stuff 'only' as CD-DA. I am sensitive to any background noise for some reason. I don't know but what I notice most is their dynamic range. Quiet passages just fade into silent and come out of it. Loud passages are clear, pleasant, present and absolutely non-distorted.

    I rather hear 'side' noises just as 'touching the instrument', a sightly cough, turning pages of the musician or 'director's' noise than random noise that veils the natural sounds. I guess I am sensitive to dithering...which is actually noise used on CD-DA to 'mask' statistically related errors resulting from inaccuracy by quantisation-error..the approach is: You do rather add random errors with intent than to have significant errors...the clue is dithering should actually allow to hear still passages better...but it's nothing than added noise.

    This is not needed at higher bit depth (PCM) since you can have more quantisation values there. And not at DSD which is actually just a one bit stream.

    The controversy at my own arguing just reflects the controversy at other forums.
    The same applies to lossy formats. They are generally worse, but to distinguish the same track is not easy.

    What justifies the hype of hires- formats is the new and sometimes revived approach to change the entire audio process already at recording.

    At down-sampling / converting into lossy:

    If you take something away what you don't hear before either way, then it is no problem.
    When you have something what you notice as 'disturbing' and it persists it is no problem.

    But when you have 2 separate audio process chains and compare one coming from hires to one coming from 16bit PCM it is possible to notice a difference.

    @Michaela Joy
    You're the only one I know who is involved in music production.
    Could you post some details how you go from record and mastering to final digital format to be released?
    It can be tech stuff. What is your 'master' and what do you do? And what do you store for the future/future releases. :)
     
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  19. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @Yen: To answer your question, I work with Cubase. I don't do live recording much (i.e. live vocals or acoustic instruments.), so I don't have to concern myself with background noise.
    Depending on how 'noisy' the audio track is, there are plugins that allow you to "clean" a track. (Example: http://www.voxengo.com/product/redunoise/)

    Noise problems arise when I use electronic instruments. Both Mixers and Synthesizers contribute to the noise floor. Mine is typically down around -65 or -70 db.

    In Cubase, everything is saved in its' original format, but processing is done internally at 32 bit floating point. When you master the final product down, you can use VST effects (EQ, reverb, etc.) on the output without modifying the original sound clips.

    And it's really not called 'mastering down' in Cubase (although that's what you're doing) They call it 'Exporting'.

    Typically, you mix all of your tracks down to a single track. Then you 'export' that track to whatever format you need.

    Here's a description of the process. https://ask.audio/articles/export-tracks-cubase

    So, the Cubase project typically lives in its own folder. You would save the folder and its' contents to an external drive.
     
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  20. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    yep thanks a lot your explain, now I learn more something still very interesting website too :)
     
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