Why moving to Linux to avoid Microsoft spying is impossible for most people

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I decided to switch from Windows 8.1 to Arch Linux when I learned about all the privacy issues there were with Windows 10 (and who knows what makes it's way back into 8 now), not to mention the forced updates.

Everything is running smoothly and I couldn't be happier. I don't play games (nothing new at least), so there really isn't anything I'm missing. I'm keeping a VM of Windows 8.1 running in case there's anything I need it for eg. Office compatibility for files I send out to other people.

 

I will give credit where credit is due. Arch Linux isn't the easiest Linux Distro to use for a newbie coming from Windows. You start off completely in the command prompt and have to install and configure the desktop when you first install it. But it's a good way to force yourself to learn.

Respect.

For most newbies coming from Windows and who are not going to like seeing a dos prompt after completing the install; I would suggest OpenSuSe or as others have suggested Debian.

I do use Arch Linux though. Both as a desktop and as a server

 

Well, truth be told I'm not quite a noob, but still far from being totally comfortable. I'm lost when it comes to scripting, piping, stream editing, etc.

I've used various *nix going back to 2003. I started with RedHat 5, and later spent two years with nothing but FreeBSD on my desktop system (I had to give it up when I moved to my laptop and it didn't have support for the Optimus hybrid graphics). For the last few years I've always kept at least one distro going in a VM getting myself comfortable with as much of the system as possible because I've always felt a desire to get away from Microsoft. I've spent most of my time with Ubuntu and openSUSE, before I found that Arch was the distro I felt most aligned with (for a desktop/workstation type setup).

When it came time to mke the switch, I was more than prepared.

 

We will not be never, ever, old enough to learn new things. Period. Don't listen to people that say you can't or you won't learn.

I've read the entire thread and, as most of you here, I've always felt the desire (curiosity too) to get away from Microsoft and am not a "power user". I'm just a ordinary guy to whom privacy matters. Relatives questions me and says there is no valid point to the defense of electronic privacy and that I'm "wasting time" with "alternative routes" but, for me, Windows 10 was the push that made old thoughts to start rolling again (trying Linux and learning it).

I think we, millions - if not billions - of users, should move away from Windows to the Linux world, of course everyone looking to fulfill their own needs, to give a response to the governments that it is a direction where we should not go to. We should not go to a future where we are not free. I don't want to share everything I do, no matter what it is, with the governments or anyone. I want to be able to choose, to understand and control what is happening in the system.

When I think to put the power of choice, of what will happen off of my decisions, in the hands of the State I promptly remember the "good" old dictatorial's governments humanity had (and have) in history. I mean, they can blame us for anything and put us away for good without no reason just because they can (What about the 'terrorists' that are 'forever locked' in that prison (Guantanamo) on Cuba? Are they really terrorists?) and this is not hysteria or paranoia is because it is happening again.

Forgive me for my english.

 

Yes.

Linus Torvald & the larger chunk of the Linux community talk a big game but, never show face. All they do is down talk Microsoft yet they absolutely refuse to make a truly superior product. What the Linux community as a whole doesn't seem to appreciate is consumerism as a whole. It's fine that %3 of us have the know how and the patience to configure Linux but, we don't represent 100% of the consumer base now do we? Where the industry makes its money isn't on 3% market base. So, Linux really needs to step it up. A 500 MB install disc sounds favorable in 2005 but, it's 2015. Discs and USB drives are capable of storing far more data than 500 MB. No one wants a Lego's OS. People want to plug it in, turn it on & use it.

Now I'm a privacy and Linux advocate but, I'm also very critical of how the entire platform can claim to be safer when it is in fact not safe at all. If you don't advise your users that there are multiple steps that have to be taken in order to truly remain safe as possible then it's false advertisement in my eyes. Every Linux claim should come with an *

From where I'm standing, Linux supports anti-privacy motives by not simply adding in GUI options even for advanced users? The issue is that Linux requires A LOT of preparation which is why a simple Windows GUI & scripts will always stamp out Linux as an actual Windows replacement for the consumer. If security is a major selling point for Linux, I don't see it. They could start by having the necessary GUI applets installed by default, having IPv6 disabled by default and limit the amount of Linux distros; 2 safe out of the box Linux distros ≠ Linux is safer than Windows.

That being said, I still don't use Linux for those very reasons. For each new OS setup, you have to make all these changes and customizations and are bound to run into hiccups especially across distros whereas with Windows, any GUI program or batch file will do the join almost seamlessly just as long as the program is written well.

I mean there are a lot of tricks M$ tries to pull to spy on you but, there are always privacy advocates sniping them out. I stay on top of them as much as I can as I do truly feel Windows is the better consumer product at current.

And yeah, someone really needs to just make a Linux that looks just like Windows 10 only it's actually Linux.

 

Echo that.
I installed Ubuntu 14.04.3 on about half dozen of my computers including home assembled desktops and brand laptops, aging less than a year to 5 years old. Ubuntu works out of box on all of them, with all drivers installed automatically and every hardware functions well. It's easier than installing Windows when you often need to install additional drivers manually. Installed GIMP, Libreoffice ppa, WPS office for linux, and everything works so far.

 

Frankly this is what happens with any distro since 2004/2005 or so.

Linux is easier to instal than windows isn't really a news.

 

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Well, my personal experience is different. My journey with Ubuntu started with build 5.10 and 6.06. At that time I remember there were quite some annoying small bugs here and there, although in general Linux started to take off as a "OS for human being". I stopped using it for a few years before I came back for 8.04 LTS. It was not until that point that Ubuntu appears to be quite stable and usable.

 

I'm talking about things the OP mentioned mostly. Checking to see if IPv6 is enabled via terminal and then having no other option but to use terminal to disable it is just not something that should have to be done in 2015.

Some applications still don't have actual websites to go to and download an executable install file; why are there even servers hosting these files? Again, average, everyday mom & pop consumers are use to going to somewebsitedotcom & clicking download. And the app marketplace console doesn't house some of these applications. Again, the delivery method is entirely too fragmented. Some applications requires dependencies in order to be installed; some can be installed without dependencies but, can't be used without dependencies.. Then Linux isn't always clear as to which dependencies are needed nor is it clear as to how to go about obtaining the necessary packages. At least with Windows, it always tells you which dependencies you need and how to get them; majority times, a webpage will automatically open to the program you need or will simply automatically install them.. That is the kind of experience users want, including the more tech savvy.. Some of the programs you guys mentioned don't have executable install files.. That's an issue for the average consumer in 2015.

I have the most experience with Ubuntu & Mint as yes, looks are 95% of the business. This is why Microsoft & Apple are so successful; it just simply looks good. I don't think it's wrong to say that Ubuntu & Mint look the best.

I mean look at Apple; every program is installed via compressed package that's become easier for users to install or via iTunes.. There aren't a lot of things to do before simply installing a simple program. The average person doesn't have time for Linux.

Look at what Steam is doing with their distro? Why isn't it a thing by now?? Download an ISO, mount, install. Boom! Done! Then as soon as one Linux team throws in the towel, the next one comes in and trumpets sound then flat-line for 5 years. It's like each new team comes in, trash talks Microsoft, innovates nothing then poof! On to the next schmo.

Linus Torvalds is the most anti-social hermit on Earth. He literally arises once in a blue moon to taunt Bill then he goes back into his cave punching in terminal commands. It's really really sad too because Ubuntu & Mint really should be doing a lot better..

Hardware compatibility is probably the bane of Linux's existence. I get the fact that Linux kernels aren't Microsoft's kernels but, again, the average consumer doesn't.. Linux does a non-existent job of explaining why some hardware won't work properly or won't work at all. There are never any real road maps to discuss how there will be full fledged hardware support.

In this video youtube[dotcom]/watch?v=MShbP3OpASA Linus Torvalds slams Nvidia because they didn't make drivers for Linux at the time. Nvidia never used any Linux resources in their products so, they didn't owe Linux anything. Also, that's not how coding works. You can't just walk up to a hardware manufacturer and tell them to support your OS just because it exists. To the whole world, there are only 3 operating systems: Mac OS X, Windows & Linux. Yes there are others but, to the average consumer, there's only 3. When AMD & particularly Nvidia began producing consumer dedicated graphics cards, Microsoft shopped itself as the best candidate as Microsoft was in more homes.

I personally believe that some of Linux teams just leach off the free resources to add lines to their resume as most of these projects still aren't at version 1, have never actually contributed anything solid to the Linux community and then they just disappear. Some of these people have been to several different teams, seemingly trying to eat off whatever distro is getting the most shine at the moment..

Linux does a very poor job of getting itself on the desktop.

 

Are you really gonna make me refute all your points yet again? Jeeze...I'm getting tired. You didn't address numerous things I brought up, so I don't see much of a point for anyone to really take anything you say on here seriously.

 

a lot of talking but almost no one going to try linux as windows replacement... the old story of all time...

why dont you stop talking and start using it as primary os?

lets see if you can stand atleast for 5 days on it...

again: linux is great, but can not replace windows. not now and i think not for a looooooong time to come..

 

I have been using Linux Mint for about 2 weeks now. For My mundane needs, (Surfing, trolling MDL, email, Skype, Netflix) it has replaced Windows 7.

But I'm not a gamer. And I'm not developing for Windows any more. Have I completely discarded Windows? Nope. I have a dual-boot machine.
If I run across something I can't do in Linux, I'll boot to the Windows installation, and do what I have to do. But My primary OS -is- Linux now.

My point is that there are some of us who can, and some of us who can't. The ones who can will. The ones who can't won't.

Is Linus Torvalds an a$$hole? I don't know. I never met Him. Are there Linux programmers working in caves? I guess it's possible. Programmers tend to be anti-social, simply because they don't want to be bothered while they're trying to visualize an algorithm in their head.

As long as the code is good, I don't care. I'll even buy them a pizza, just to hear about what they're working on.

Is Linux better than Windows? Is a hammer better than a screwdriver? For some projects, yes. For some, not so much.

They're tools. Suited for different purposes. Apart from that, these "Linux vs. Windows" arguments are moot.

 

The answer is pretty simple for 99% of the users.

For most of them Linux costs zero, but Windows costs zero as well.

And money is one of the two things that moves the masses (I think you know pretty the other one ).

That's all.

 

Well, typos & hyperbole aside, yes I'm talking about the desktop experience. Most desktop users opt for either Apple or Microsoft due to simplicity. The comments I made were in correlation to what the OP states; Linux isn't a very friendly customer facing product.

Linux can be made to be safer but, that goes for any operating system with the proper tweaking but, Linux is not any safer than Windows out of the box. There's many a news articles about Linux vulnerabilities so, no it's not safer than Windows out of the box. Locking it down puts the average user at a disadvantage in the form of it being an inconvenience; it's a catch 22 yeah I know -_- but, that's the way the ball bounces. I never claimed Windows was safer. Windows is just in far more machines than Linux. If Linux had to serve Windows numbers, how easy do you think it would be then? Microsoft has to deal with threats 24/7 & on top of that, you have people altering system files and not installing updates, seemingly deliberately installing viruses so, yeah, it's a messy job. Now do you honestly believe that Linux can do the a better job if they had that many customers? Apple tried to sell that snake oil & we all know how that went down..

Linus does talks but, there are never any presentations. Even Acer does presentations..

Android users know what Android is but, very few of them know what Linux is.. Even the PlayStation 2 didn't get Linux any shine. Linux does not do a very good job of putting their name in people's mouths.

Again, I wasn't addressing the tech savvy demographic. I'm talking about the non-tech savvy demographic.

And yes, GUI for every program. If they had a Linux presentation today and showcased some of the things you can do on the OS to people who aren't familiar with Linux and didn't warn them that terminal commands would be needed to install some basic programs then sold those machines that Fall, people would shortly return the product and at some point there would be a civil suit against Linux for false advertisement.

Linux does just dandy on servers and that's fine but, hackers make light work of those every day. Supercomputers don't count because they almost never get internet access as they mostly used for number crunching. Even then, supercomputers have also been hacked.

There are holes in everything if you dig deep enough; see what I did there? At least M$ gets a nod for being honest about it.. I mean their Action Center is like, "Yeah uhh, you're pretty much ***ed out." But, Apple & Linux cling on to this idea that they are bullet proof despite the very well documented breaches and ongoing vulnerabilities. Android needs not even be mentioned anymore.. When you're doing M$ numbers, there is no such thing as safe. There are just entirely too many variables involved. And telling people that simply installing Linux will fix everything is a very irresponsible thing to do. If Linux had to serve Microsoft numbers, a hacker will find his way in. But, servers are all the rave these days so, even if you have a bullet proof* OS, your websites that you visit don't so, you're still boned.

I mean you can refute my points but, I'm right. Now, yes I've pulled some figures out of my *** but, my points are accurate. Linux isn't bullet proof. Linux is a horrible customer facing product.

Oh and I'm not saying that Linux hasn't invented and innovated; what I meant to clarify is that they don't realistically innovate much, not enough to be so snooty anyway. For as long as Linux has been out, it really should be doing better than what it is.

With that, as I mentioned, I love the Ubuntu & Mint distros but, I don't use them much anymore due to compatibility issues and the hassle of setting up fresh installs.. I fresh install OS out of habit ever few months and the process is just easier on Windows.. I always backup my profile folder and drop them in when I get all my programs installed..

What I like about Linux more than anything is the filesystem. !@#$%^&*()-_=+ in filenames ftw! I love the Mint wallpapers. Mint was what actually introduced me to lovebizhi[dot]com and that was in the Software Manager; I mean I wish it was in English but, still.. But, you see? Those are the kinds of experiences customers want. They don't want to punch in terminal commands to install wallpaper :/

As for the application use scenarios, I'm an audio producer and looking to get into film so, Linux is a no go.

As a tech enthusiast, I appreciate what Linux does for us but, as a consumer, it's just not optimized for a customer facing product.

 

Not true, the default configuration is way superior.
For example, you can't actually login with the root account in Ubuntu. Each service has it's own account with reduced privileges and things like logs are protected from altering. There is also some code sandboxing of several processes that protects form accessing other processes's resources.
The main software sources are repositories where the software is not only checked for malware but for malicious behavior (installing toolbars and etc).
Basically for a malware to infect a Linux system from let's say Chromium, it needs first of all some exploit to execute code, then another exploit to escape the Chromium sandbox, and then a third exploit to gain root privileges so it could install itself. That's a 3 step exploit, and it needs to hit all 3 vulnerabilities at the same time so it could do any damage.
Windows is also a nightmare tho troubleshot, there are like a million places where the malware could attach itself to the startup process. Not so much in Linux.