Why moving to Linux to avoid Microsoft spying is impossible for most people

Discussion in 'Linux' started by roga, Aug 29, 2015.

  1. Yen

    Yen Admin
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  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    I just love the fact that middle aged (?!? :D ) scientists are kiddies, playing games... :D

    I suppose it's OK, depending on one's HW, i.e. drivers etc. I had probs with Mint...

    But it is not bad, for sure...
     
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  3. Dngrsone

    Dngrsone MDL Novice

    May 25, 2016
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    #843 Dngrsone, Aug 9, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016
    Steam is doing a pretty good job of evening the playing field, if you will, in regard to PC-based gaming.

    There are still problems with Linux and certain manufacturers, but for the past five years or so, I've been able to install one variation of *buntu or Mint (an Ubuntu fork) on every one of my laptops with minimal problems. That is, there may have been problems, but they were more nuisances than deal-breakers.

    I had a discussion the other day with someone about this whole MS vs Linux thing... he said he never had a machine that didn't run Windows problem-free. I countered that he'd never built his own machine. Which was true: every computer he owned was store-bought, with a version of Windows pre-installed. Someone else had gone through the process of installing the operating system and assigning the proper drivers, &etc &etc.

    When you build a computer by hand and then try to install an OS-- any OS-- you run into issues, whether it be settings, quirks in the drivers, what-have-you.

    This is the thing with "most people" who are trying to run away from an operating system they are being 'forced' to use: up until now, someone else has always done the work for them, and it's a bit of a shock to have to deal with these little problems that have never occurred before in their experience.

    An analogy would be bicycles: when you go to a store to buy a bicycle, getting a bike has been fully assembled and is ready to be ridden right out the door. You've always bought your bicycles that way. But then, you go to a store that doesn't pre-build. How do you feel about your new bike when suddenly it comes in a box and you have to put it together yourself??
     
  4. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I had slight problems, sometimes when I pushed a button it did not respond....the issue vanished after using another kernel.
    NVidia graphics are well supported, also wide spread other hardware such as intel CPUs and Intel chipsets.....also standard protocols such as MTP.
    What I love at Linux is that you can install what is personally missing afterwards, just installed extFat support.

    Playing games....most of them PC games I do not like (stupid ego shooters and being soldier games)....but there are a few adventures I like....next one I am playing will be Obduction, unfortunately there will be a win and mac version only.
     
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  5. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

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    Speaking about games, nowadays some Windows golden oldies meant to run under the DX3-DX7/8 are easier to run under Linux + Wine than in a recent Windows.
     
  6. Espionage724

    Espionage724 MDL Expert

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  7. mannerheim

    mannerheim MDL Novice

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    restrictive mess is right. since the introduction of w10, i moved to Linux mint. it installed like a dream on my laptop. i have avoided most of the ubuntu upgrades, because i distrust canonical, and never a problem. moved back to w7, after cleaning most of the upgrades`meanwhile.
     
  8. vyvojar

    vyvojar MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2016
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    The issue of privacy is a bit more two faced because people simply ignore the economic incentives involved, yet it is at the core of it all.

    IMO, it is not matter of the OS, but how lazy the user is. People generally go with least effort. Least effort often amounts to signing deals with the devil. Android is linux, iPhone more or less BSD, yet both walled gardens perhaps even bigger privacy mess than Windows. And nobody complains, google and facebook, telegram or snapchat .. they can't be evil like microsoft ... right.

    For linux desktops others mentioned it there. Incidents starts to crop up in direct proportion how linux becomes popular on the desktop. Default search sold in browsers? No problem. Amazon product placement? Let's have it! Canonical's pong home? well, it's merely system health tracking service, you're just being offered a trial...

    First rule of marketing - the more lazy the consumer, the more likely they'll be uninformed consumer, the better prospects to sell stuff. Proprietary or opensource? How does that relate at all?
     
  9. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    There is also another relation concerning privacy: The less I know about how they treat it the less I can be concerned. The more I know the more efforts I have to make to find an alternative/ modify it.
    To an uninformed user the issue does NOT exist. Since nothing 'harmful' really happens they don't become aware.

    Finally by using current 'devices' one has to realize an own personal idea about privacy. With w8 I moved to mint, with android I consider it as 'fun' device rooted it and removed 'unwanted' stuff...and the media server I am using is based on enigma2 (Linux)...

    Besides of the mentioned laziness it is also the missing fun to care about/ no fun with tech details and prejudice about alternatives...
     
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  10. thorin0815

    thorin0815 MDL Senior Member

    Jul 16, 2015
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    To be honest, I am missing the fun about fixing all the "exploits" under Windows too. Even reinstalling the whole system with all the needed settings, fixes and programs is like a thing of minutes with Linux, dammit. :D
     
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  11. ph4ntom74

    ph4ntom74 MDL Novice

    Oct 25, 2010
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    Ive used linux probably the same time iv been using MS, when it comes to stability and functioning, depends on what you need. for servers yes definitely linux, for desktops it depends, for me it doesnt work. reason being for example, i need to study for a lot of certifications and to make labs etc, one of the main things that drove me away from linux on my desktop was that i just lose too many time troubleshooting, time that i cant afford.

    so im now coming from windows 8.1 pro on my laptop in which id like to install windows 10, seams to me like having a better performance, and to be honest windows 8.1 sucks, but its functional enough and i dont lose time troubleshooting and working around until things finally work for me.

    Now, first things first.

    Been reading a lot of security or privacy invasion issues around windows 10. for example:

    333.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3gm1e3/what_windows_10_is_actually_monitoring_regardless

    3332://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft

    As far as im understanding, this has moved to a complete "all seeing eye" OS, and although i dont have any reason to hide anything, im still entitled to my privacy and i dont like being spied on!

    1- Can anyone here let me know if these spying features can be disabled completely or at least hackable so that i can stop my privacy from being breached?

    2- This is a big concern for me, i need a functional system (i do not want to lose time neither troubleshooting stuff that should work, and i dont want to spend hours coding stuff that doesnt make sense to spend time on), Does any of you ever sniffed your own w10 machines to check whats going on in the wire?

    ps: i do not intent to use any MS account by the way.

    Thanks for any input!
     
  12. thorin0815

    thorin0815 MDL Senior Member

    Jul 16, 2015
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    Use Windows as a offline system and you are fine. I don't think there are any other ways to completly control the data mining of Microsoft.
     
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  13. 90

    90 MDL Member

    Aug 21, 2015
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    Windows Server 2016 possibly does not data mine, after urging people to check this in other forums no one cares to do it, you can try it and sniff around.
     
  14. IAmAPC

    IAmAPC MDL Junior Member

    Aug 1, 2013
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    Sorry, I didn't read all posts in the thread. :)

    If I understand correctly, most prefer here Linux Mint. So how about Mint vs. Ubuntu vs. Debian? These all come from the same family.

    To the topic question: Why moving to Linux to avoid Microsoft spying is impossible for most people

    What if I use zero, nul, nada software which requires Windows in particular? So it all boils down to how the average user can
    - keep his Windows/Linux system safe
    - fight with drives on both Linux and Windows, depending on your hardware config :)
     
  15. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    Linux Mint is a great starting place for the Linux novice. After that, there are different distros that you could use.

    I say yes. I believe in striking a balance. plug up what you can and don't obsess over it too much. After all...We're on our computers for fun as well as work.

    Plus it depends on what you're doing with your computer. If you're in places where you don't belong, or surfing the dark web, then you need to completely secure your machine.

    That takes research and vigilance.
     
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  16. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

    Dec 14, 2012
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    That's the perfect condition to use linux, just choose a good distro, say Manjaro XFCE, boot it and use it for a while, if you're satisfied, install it. If not, try something else, starting from another flavour say Manjaro KDE/plasma, or even a completely different distro, like PClinuxOS or whatever.

    Linux is way easier than windows. Usually it just works out of the box w/o having to install any driver.

    There are exceptions, like some HW that requires a proprietary FW that needs to be downloaded separately, or even HW unsupported at all (rare but possible)

    Anyway the suggestion is always the same, boot it and check yourself. It's matter of 5 minutes.
     
  17. 90

    90 MDL Member

    Aug 21, 2015
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    Linux is not easier than Windows. Things seem to work on Linux then one day you get weird crap happening like desktop rearranging by itself, wallpaper reseting, pulseaudio dropping sound devices, network card not recognizing. CPU management is worse in Linux, same software opening slower than Windows from cpu cores not working simultaneously. If it werent for privacy concerns nobody will be using Linux for desktop.
     
  18. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

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    You're mixing UP ease of use and stability and you're also mixing up kernel related things like a network card that stops working, with a program that loose or mess its settings.

    Speaking about settings lost, those are common problems on either side of the pond, what changes in linux is that the quality is variable depending the project taken in account. It's pretty obvious that, if you use the latest development Plasma 5 desktop or a small one derived by a personal project, you can't expect the same stability of Gnome 3 or KDE 3.5

    Windows is windows, it's a commercial product. The average quality is pretty low, but is consistent across all the bundled SW.

    But that said, just search for how many people has problems in windows with the new crappy start menu or some of the "square" apps

    As usual user's brain is the answer. Choose the right SW, install just what's needed, uninstall anything that proved to be not satisfactory as soon as possible and so on is the way to go.


    Back to ease of use and messed programs lets go with a practical example:


    You have a messed start menu on KDE and in Windows


    Windows

    To fix it you have to.

    #1 create a new administrative account

    #2 log out from the affected user

    #3 log in the new one

    #4 wait 5 minutes for the first run crap

    #5 change the explorer settings to show the hidden/system files

    #6 look for the tile db and delete it

    '#7 log off from the support account

    #8 log on onte affected user

    #9 pray that windows rebuild correctly the tiledb


    Linux


    #1 Delete the setting folder or config file of the affected program

    #2 logoff and log on again


    Those are facts, not opinions.
     
  19. n9nu

    n9nu MDL Novice

    Mar 24, 2010
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    Wow....I am seeing a lot of negative attitudes towards Linux. There are tons of distros that are 'newbie' Windows convert friendly.

    Have a look at distrowatch dot com and browse. I use Mageia Linux. It couldn't be easier. Kubuntu is another very popular one. Too many just give up because it doesn't look '100 percent' like Windows. Guess what? That's part of the whole freaking deal! You use a distro with KDE/Plasma 5 and do a little research. There are more real-time Linux help sites than Windows. IRC is your best friend baby. I been using Linux since 1998. ANd forget the VM Ware or other Virtual Emulation modes. Install it.

    Tim
    ARS N9NU
     
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  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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