Windows 10 upgrade is FORCE installing to Win 7/8/8.1 PC's, without user consent!

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by MysTikAL3, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    ach, but he does... we do not talk bs here, and integrity should never be a question. we feel something ontoward
    is happening here against our will. and we do not need such pages, yen. just my 2 cents. w10 is fast becoming a case for
    malwarebytes, i think.. here, i can put my case in 6 lines..;)
     
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  2. YukinoAi

    YukinoAi MDL Novice

    Sep 5, 2015
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    It's actually because I have a standards of evidence higher than "anecdote" to believe most claims actually. That was what one of the reasons I posted those comments about "the printer not working" to bring up this concept, as well as the concept of "informed consent". We should not simply believe claims by default, but rather not believe them and it's up to the person making the claim to provide evidence. It's not one should believe the opposite of the claim, but rather withhold belief entirely until evidence is presented either way. Anecdotal evidence (observations by third parties) are notorious at being inaccurate for a variety of reasons and hence should always be taken with a grain of salt when trying to derive what is really going on.

    If a user reports their printer doesn't work what is the first thing a technician should do? It's instinctual. Every (good) technician knows it and does it before anything else and and there isn't a "debate" for which is the right call from a diagnostic perspective.
    A) Go check the printer
    B) Check the operating system configuration
    C) Talk to the user about sports
    D) Try to print
    E) Reinstall the printer

    It's not that I don't believe you Yen, or that I'm working for MS or am a fanboy of all their spying bs, or like their update system but rather that I need to confirm the issue's exact implementation details before any discussion of "is this appropriate or not" can begin. Is it the case that MS really is "FORCING" users to install Win10 on Win7 systems without their consent? Are users opting into it without realizing it? Is there an opt-out option? Do the upgrade mechanisms provide adequate allowance to allow users to opt-out?

    What is a series of repeatable steps that I can perform to verify issue in order to figure out how to fix it? We need that VM test before this conversation can go forward.
     
  3. oldsh_t

    oldsh_t MDL Expert

    Dec 23, 2009
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    Yea this seems funny that this person joined MDL the same day this thread started.:g:
     
  4. MysTikAL3

    MysTikAL3 MDL Senior Member

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  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I'd prefer an install on a real machine. :)
    I personally cannot say if M$ has forced to install the w10 update without the need of 'an action' by the end user.
    To me it's been already enough when they reinstalled the hidden KB that nags to go for w10 on my PC 2 times.

    I don't know how they choose those people and when...and if they still do.

    I had that event posted in my signature some weeks to make people aware of it that it happened to me.
    To reproduce that one would need to use w7 as a working device/OS and to install any updates on a OEM_SLP2.1 activated ultimate. One would need to remove and then to hide the mentioned KB and have a look if M$ re-installs it without any further actions of the end user. (Update is hidden auto WU is on.)

    I am dual booting the mentioned PC. The event must be still logged somewhere. If you want any further info (logs) tell me where I should have a look to post the info. I know what has happened already. :)
     
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  6. oldsh_t

    oldsh_t MDL Expert

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    #46 oldsh_t, Sep 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    Well I can confirm that this forcing of Win10 is actually happening. I read this thread yesterday an sent this info to my cousin along with the updates to remove and stay away from. But I also told her that some of the updates may just return.

    Now lets make this perfectly clear that in no way did she ever agree to any Win10 upgrade nor did she even click on the notification for the upgrade. When she first got the notification the first thing she did was to email me and ask me about it and what should she do. I told her to do nothing because she is not interested to upgrading to Win10 anyway. I also gave here the update to remove to get rid of the notification. End of story!! I believe that all went well because I never heard from her again on this subject again.

    Now as stated above that I sent her the updates to delete and avoid yesterday and I got an email back from her late last night and I believe she only deleted one so far.

    COPY & PASTE from her email:
    Code:
    I deleted KB3068708  at 9:57pm Sept 7, 2015.  Restart required. "Preparing to configure Windows.  Do not turn off your computer"  
    
    This went on till 11:01pm.  Yes, I was worried.  This was a long time. 
    
    It is late and I am tired.  Not going to do anymore tonight.
    I am busy all day tomorrow helping Stacey pack.
    I will email you when I get home.
    Guess what.  There are updates waiting to download.  I will check to see.
    
    
    x1.jpg
    
    
    Then I guess she checked her update history and here is what she found:

    COPY & PASTE from her email:
    Code:
    check this out!!!!  below
    
    
    x2.jpg
    
    
    SHE is not a happy camper right now. I don't know much more than this right now. Should know more when I hear from her maybe tonight or tomorrow.
     
  7. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    That should be illegal, who the heck gave Microsoft the right to upgrade people unless they specifically request it !
     
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  8. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

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    #48 nodnar, Sep 8, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
    there has been this thread by mj, about privacy..
    and there is this one here now..
    it should all be pretty obvious by now..
    mb i am just a suspicious old man. mb..
    but i do not think so..
    also, when i google around, i have to conclude that
    there is very little to be found about forced installs of w10.
    it is not because we are seeing ghosts. it is because
    google makes no noise about it.. food for thought??
     
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  9. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #49 Yen, Sep 8, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
    I had used different search engines just to have a look about 'reinstallation of that GWX KB by M$' even though it has been hidden.
    I found three different confirmations on German sites. All had it uninstalled and excluded from WU manually and kept using WU in auto update mode. It reappeared as installed after several weeks which means they have it removed from the exclude/hide list without any consent of the end user.
     
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  10. LatinMcG

    LatinMcG Bios Borker

    Feb 27, 2011
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    #50 LatinMcG, Sep 8, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
    i did upgrade.. then restored back 7 and removed the update upgrade kb.. nothing so far.
    checking win updates shows upgrade to 10 now. . GET STARTED. < DONT CLICK IT

    i click Show available updates and ignore win 10 by hiding the OPTIONAL update 2699.1MB by right click .. hide this update
     
  11. Yen

    Yen Admin
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  12. YukinoAi

    YukinoAi MDL Novice

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    So mystical equates being forced to do something with whatever the default or suggested option is, irrespective of the fact that users opted in or any opt-out options. That's an interesting definition of “forced” and I believe we have now come to terms which each other's positions on this matter mystical. I have a different definition of “forced.”

    It's also the case that users in general don't know how to “hide updates” so they don't show up again, as per “oldsh t”'s post suggests.

    @Yen This is a different issue, specifically, this relates to the mechanism by which MS should use to give users the option of upgrading and to check for comparability for such an update. Should MS let users know about the upgrade option before or after check for computability? There's actually a lot of gray area here and each user's preferences are going to be different.

    My conclusion here is that if some users are not interested in windows 10 and are worried about the auto update mechanisms or privacy related issues (like myself), they should disable automatic updates and check which updates are being installed manually. That users can't be bothered to

    start->control pane->windows updates->change settings -> never check for updates -> ok

    is another matter entirely. In addition, some users (the rest of Yen's post) have expressed concerns about being able to “hide updates,” a feature Microsoft built into the OS to allow for a workable middle ground between all on and manually installing updates. In light of these concerns, it may be worth avoiding this feature pending further investigations involving win 7 in a VM.

    If you don't trust a company's automatic updates feature, which I sure don't, why the heck do you leave it enabled? Disable it and move on with your life. Check for updates manually if you care about them and create a system image if your current OS configuration is important to you (start menu->programs->maintance->backup and restore->create a system image) /case closed
     
  13. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

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    #53 nodnar, Sep 8, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
    tjah, yen.. soll man m$`blaue Augen immer noch vertrauen? ich bezweifele das..;)
     
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  14. MysTikAL3

    MysTikAL3 MDL Senior Member

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    #54 MysTikAL3, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
    (OP)
    NO!!!....:mad: The problem is that the rest of the world WILL NOT DO THIS, nor should any of us have to...

    Our purchased, and privately owned products are being ILLEGALLY and deliberately invaded by Microsoft!
    Of course the tech savvy will do as you say, and WE ALREADY HAVE done that and more, much more...:rolleyes:

    This discussion and ILLEGAL controversy is about protecting and informing 99% of the population, and this is about PROTECTING the AVERAGE CONSUMER.....
    All of which Microsoft clearly doesn't give a crap about!

    I will INSTEAD see this to the end, and I will watch Microsoft crash and burn for this invasive, privacy nightmare, that THEY have created for the people/end users/consumers.

    That is the issue here, and that will be at the core of the soon to come lawsuits against Microsoft!
    If Microsoft is paying you a penny for your BS, they should demand a refund...:vertag:
    :eek:

     
  15. MysTikAL3

    MysTikAL3 MDL Senior Member

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    #55 MysTikAL3, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    (OP)
    Thank you very much for coming forward with this and reinforcing my observations...:tankyou:

    I have come across 3 more PC's with 'forced' windows 10 downloads and upgrade (failed) attempts today.
    This forced issue is now affecting virtually every Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 PC that I am contacting.
    Again they never 'reserved' it, never opted-in, never consented or allowed the installation...
    It all took place without their knowledge, same as your cousin...

    This is the current list I have of updates to remove that covers both Windows 7/8.1, all Windows 10 upgrade related updates and includes new telemetry updates for both 7/8.1.
    KB's; 971033 2902907 2952664 2976978 2977759 2990214 3012973 3014460 3015249 3021917 3022345 3035583 3044374 3050265 3050267 3065987 3068708 3075249 3075851 3075853 3080149

    The 3 bold updates are most critical to remove the Windows 10 app, however I recommend removing them all if present....
    Reboot, check for WU, and HIDE any of these that are listed...
    There may be more coming down the pike, so I advise untick 'recommended' updates permanently, and set WU to Never, or to "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them" so that she may have full control and critique any new questionable updates.
    :)
     
  16. Yen

    Yen Admin
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  17. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

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    i found some usefull info on windows seven forums

    seems most of it is in gwx directories...
    when i searched for it, i found a lot of that stuff.
    installed 21 june, more than a week before i disabled windose update..
    i anticipated trouble, but i was too late..
    time for a backup and a new install, i guess.. :mad:
     
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  18. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    This is nothing new. I have had to exclude updates way before 10 came out and after a reboot or even re-checking for updates, the excluded update would come back in the list to download. The best option is to simply select "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them"
     
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  19. MysTikAL3

    MysTikAL3 MDL Senior Member

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    #59 MysTikAL3, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    (OP)
    Came across this from Github... aid to 'Block10upgrade'...

    Code:
    Run each line separately in cmd as admin...
    
    reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx /v DisableGwx /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f
    reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate /v DisableOSUpgrade /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f
    
    then reboot!
    :)
     
  20. Nucleus

    Nucleus MDL Guru

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    #60 Nucleus, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
    abbodi posted that - the recommended way to block the upgrade offer back on Page 2 of this thread.

    I've been wondering why no one had commented on it. I realise this thread is about the fact that the nagging update is being forced and ppl shouldn't have to do so - but the fix posted by abbodi - does it work?
     
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