@acrsn I believe you are right about it being too late for M$ to pull out a different rabbit out of the hat. But if enough end users protest Windows 8 and simply refuse to use it, then M$ may be forced to consider end users when making Windows 9 or whatever is next. When enough end users refused to go along with that Vista crap, M$ came along with Windows 7. IMO, Windows 7 is currently the best OS out there. Windows 8 is doomed no doubt, but let's hope we can force M$ to make their next OS (after Windows 8) much better.
@100 Thank you for explaining that. This again just shows how predatory M$ is and how they are ever so greedy and monopolistic. It's just a darn shame that we have a handful of clowns running technology companies that treat all of us like this.
@kyeahy You have to be kidding me? Just because other companies act in highly unethical ways, that gives M$ the right to act in the same manner? If that philosophy was taken seriously by the majority of us, there would be total chaos. Besides, just because little Johnny is acting like a spoiled brat that doesn't give his older brother Mark the right to do so as well. Do you understand what i am saying?
That's exactly the point. Quote of source:" This means while Mozilla and Google can develop Metro-designed applications for the Start screen, it will not be allowed to port it to the desktop behind the scenes" It is an active action of M$ to deny development kits for third party developers to port. He won't, it's a waste of time. I refrained from comment on his post so far. The fact that Apple restricts justifies M$'es right to restrict and so M$ did the 'Smart and righteous choice'. That takes the biscuit. Some simply are not able to make use of freedom of choice, they feel more comfortable when restricted, they don't get that restrictions always cause a slow-down of progress of technology, it's incomprehensible to me, especially the way they argue.
You are right Yen. I just felt that I had to point out his fallacious argument. I can't comprehend it either. It's reassuring to know that there are others out here, like yourself, that really do understand the issues involved and how it affects all of us in the big picture.
A lot of hate towards Microsoft on this forum, surprising... "M$", really? Anyway, Microsoft made it clear from the beginning that Windows RT will only support WinRT apps and no legacy code. There may be questions about the advantages IE has but apart from that, if the lack of desktop applications on Windows RT is an issue then the logical option is to get an x86 device that allows such applications. The design goal for Windows RT is different from x86 Windows 8 and is designed more as a closed device, forcing Microsoft to open it up to all the legacy code of old negates the purpose of this version altogether. Plus how many developers/software makers are going to recompile their applications for the ARM architecture?
In visual studio you can choose MachineARM instead of MachineX86 as target machine, isn't that enough to let apps run on Windows for ARM? Or is the Win32 api not available on ARM?
I would not say hate, I would say disappointment. I expected w8 to be a improved w7 for corporate use. I expected a wRT on ARM with all rights for all developers, 3rd party also. But what will we get? W8 with metro on x86 / X64 desktop PCs w8 with metro on probably only x86 tablets wRT with metro on ARM tablets / mobiles Guess why Ballmer said the future and focus of M$ will be metro, metro, metro? They force to introduce metro on desktop PCs. Sooner or later all PC users have to be familiar with metro. So they buy mobiles with metro on ARM and tablets with metro on ARM, or for 'corporate' use w8 with metro on x86 tablets. As result we will have not only a monopoly at desktop PCs, but also on portables. This would mean again no progress no innovation. M$ has to do that. To all consumers it would be far better a new OS on a new CPU architecture would reach the desktop PCs. I am old enough to be witness of the entire history of M$. I am sick of to have to notice again that a new chance (now with the ARM CPUs and open source competitors) could be again destroyed by the greed of a monopolist. The Intel / M$ duo on desktop PCs alone will never achieve what mankind would be able to develop. We could have a far more powerful OS if there would be real competition. The intention of M$ is to remain their monopoly, they don't care about 'our' progress. There are similarities to a dictatorship. One praises his ideas as to be new, innovative, ultimate, for our own good only and the primitive folks applaud. "metro, metro, metro". Everybody can buy what he wants, no problem. But if you want to have a faster progress in development, think about and have a look at the competitors. And when M$ excludes competitors (3rd party applications) then deny the entire OS. More profit to different people-->more people who can develop. This is no hate, this should make some sense.
"Smart and righteous choice" was an overstatement I just dislike how Microsoft is seemingly already pinned as the black sheep while the tablet wars are yet to begin. I dislike how there's a lot of false negativism floating around the web (ranging from Internet Explorer sucks comics, to seemingly every non-IT rooted news websites including subtle negative undertones on every Microsoft-related post.) Sometimes I feel like Microsoft isn't even given a chance I don't like how some things in Windows 8 are going either, but I've experienced Microsoft first-hand and will always continue to have a great amount of respect for the company and how they work, whether their products are good or bad. I love opensource software and freedom of choice as much as you guys do, my apologies if that was misunderstood.
But...IE does suck! It sucks a lot less than it used to; the tabs and a better download manager achieved that, but it is definitely not for the power user. It has it's uses, though, don't get me wrong, but MS isn't moving fast enough to ever make IE my main browser again. As far as Windows 8. I don't like Metro for non-touch PCs (haven't had the opportunity to try it in it's native environment), but with the improvements in Windows 8, I doubt if I'll be tempted to go back to 7. It's so much faster, there are many things that are improved, I can and do have Windows 8 automatically go to the desktop (copy the Start Menu "Desktop" item to the Startup folder) after I have it automatically log on, Classic Shell has me sold and even has advantages over any of the Start menus available in Windows before. I'm a tinkerer. That's why I personally like "PCs" and Android. Very easy to tinker with and with something as popular as Windows, someone will always come out with a way around the most annoying new "features" or limitations. If the Metro interface, or the inability to explicitly choose to start up with Desktop or Metro, is truely not widely adopted and/or complaints against it are in the majority after Windows 8 goes final, MS might enable the ability to choose in a Service Pack or update, and if it still really hasn't taken hold by the time the next Windows comes out, then maybe (just don't hold our breaths) they won't go down the same road in Windows Nein Off topic, maybe after Windows Nein, they should name it Windows Zero. Heck, Coke can have a re-branded version of it, Windows Coke Zero. All in favor? No?
OK, no problem. Your previous post sounded like you fully support restrictions of M$, because Apple does it as well and restrictions are fine for us end users. It had been a kind of incomprehensible to me. I am also sorry if my reply should have been a bit harsh. Thanks for making that clear. Of course you can like M$'es products. They in fact have their w7 I like as well.
Microsoft is trying to duplicate the user experience of the iPad. Having desktop application WITHOUT any form of power management from the OS would be a disaster for Windows RT tablet. Performance, usability, stability, security, and battery life are key requirements if Microsoft wants to compete with Apple. IMO, these are the reasons why they can't allow desktop apps to use legacy Win32 API in the new OS. They DON'T want desktop apps taking huge chunk of the CPU for whatever freaking reasons. They want a smooth experience where all apps on the tablet are sandboxed properly, can be suspended properly, and can resume properly. They simply can NOT do this if desktop apps were allowed targetting the old Win32 API. I prefer this approach for Windows RT tablet. I want my apps on the tablet to be fast, smooth, stable, and secured. And if I don't like the restrictions, then I can choose Windows 8 tablet with Intel. Have you ever wondered why Android tablets can't seem to compete with the iPad? Seriously, the iPad is buttery smooth. There's no lag, no delay, and frankly it's nice and silky. I can't say the same thing for the Android tablets that I have used even with ICS. The iPad does things, even without the "desktop", extremely well. Additionally, the business models of these corporations are very different. There's a reason why Android is the kitchen of everything. Google doesn't give a dam about what users run. In fact, they want more users to run as many apps they want. Why? Because of its business model. Simplified model of each company: Apple = hardware (iPhone, iPad, iPod), the software is to get you to buy their hardware Google = advertising, doesn't matter how, within apps, within browser, etc... Microsoft = licensing of Windows, they can't control their partner's hardware as well as their own software
I'm just quoting messages from another thread for not writing offtopic, this one seems suitable for my thoughts... Daz as always you're so real and smart! About desktops and laptops you're completely right, our thoughts are the same! 'bout tablets let me say that Android is ten times better than Windows 8 on tablets, tryed samsung galaxy tab(friend of mine). Working so fast, stable on ARM, and completely open source full customizable!!!!!! Windows RT will be completely "closed", fast yeah but how much more than Android that i will be exited for??? Stable? huh, Android is on tablets how much time?? So RT will not be more(new born on ARM), moreover let'see how much it will cost a Windows RT tablet(maybe longer battery life at which price? not more than Ipad of course...), and if will be compatible with nowadays tablets? I already have a tablet can i try on it Windows RT? or i have buy new one? (i will say no, for MS closeminded ideas) That question will be written many times on microsoft FAQ, and believe me noone will buy new tablet already having one! i will just explain my (of my friend better) issue with Galaxy Tab Android, very happy bout it, slim, fast, stable, beautiful at sight, fully customizable at all, with one big hole.... Cannot find a good Music player that fits on it(for Spinning lessons, with big characters time of the song, and bpm playing now - Winamp for win is doing this job fine) So i suggest to him, wait Windows RT, we are going to install on it and use Winamp version for this..... Know what, not possible at all , closed system just for metro crap!! Paul try Android, and you will see that the job done and needed with a tablet, is very well satisfied with this ARM OS, no need to use Windows RT(unless you want use Ecxel on tablets ....but office for Android (fully cr***able ndr) is working fine and costs a piece of bread) so where we use so magic Windows 8???? Nowhere and this is what are entire web saying, just small of them are "excited" bout this crap Explain the convenience of a windows RT tablet? Let'see....
It's very obvious that Android tablet works best for YOU. You like to tinker. You like to fix. You like to install custom ROM, etc. The average Joe doesn't want to this do. They just want it to work. Again, there's no one forcing you to choose Windows RT or iOS tablet. I do know that Android tablets offer a vast amount of customization and everything you ever dreamed of. But for the average Joe & Jane, all they want is something that works and works well. Look at the iPad, severely limited in customization and "freedom", and yet, it surpasses all sales of Android tablets combined. How is that possible? Are people that "dumb" to get something so limited? Why do suppose that is? After all, since Android can do EVERYTHING, then everyone should have bought it? And yet, they buy the iPad instead. Why? Are people THAT brainwashed? And there's nothing to stop Nullsoft from writing a Winamp metro app for Windows RT. And Google doesn't really care what you do with Android. They even gave it out for free! (although "free"). Why? Because they want you to use their services and advertisement.
If you read well, the tablet is not mine, but is a best friend of mine, he is the average Joe, using tablet for his needings, and not so skilled at customization and moddings.... but when he discovers what Android market gives..... installing programs in Android is 10 times easier than Windows(i'm a 15 years following and using Windows fan til Metro crap) Not everyone, just point of views, usability, price and Fashion, and the last attributes iPad is the winner... Do you really think, at that point Nullsoft will Write A metro App????? We are at Release Candidate point, and except Mozilla, no words from big sofware companies about Metro Apps, developing Metro Apps cost money, and companies will wait the market share of new Windows before betting money on it! Testing a full working and full features available Metro App takes a lot of time...(think just how much time Microsoft is developing Office 15 that can be installed in standard x86 or 64 architecture and Arm architecture......) You know such big software company doing the same??? I don't think so.... We will see..... Software company masters are not dumb brainwashed to bet money without having a secure payback...