'Wish' what would it be for you?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by sid_16, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    @R29k.
    now this is really sad,,
    i may be a bit off topic, my friend,
    but let`s get this straight..
    there is nothing wrong with taking a
    dim view of religion, or calling the world
    flawed..
    but!
    do not forget where you are, i ask you.
    in this thread people are genuinely trying
    to find a truth for themselves..
    whatever you think of that,
    and no matter how trivial it may seem to you,
    it is an important issue for them.
    you have already pointed out that you
    have got your doubts, but i really doubt
    that this is the place to ventilate that.
    with respect, nodnar.
     
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  2. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    Excuse me sir, might I point out that this is a forum !
    I was under the impression that on a forum you can discuss and question
    people's views among other things. Apparently on this forum it seems only ok to question
    when your views coincide with the accepted view. That my friend is sad not to mention pathetic !
     
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  3. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    Yes this is a forum and I like to discuss here (controversy).
    The thread here is fine, I have no issues. :)
    But I can understand what nodnar wanted to mention. It’s that what I have broached already.

    To let adherents of religions to appear to be stupid and a question of respect.
    To be tolerant when going through life is the first attribute to walk on the right path.


    We have Christianity with the bible.
    So one can say, OK I devote myself to it.

    Then one can come to the conclusion, like you it is flawed and hence useless.
    And another one can find in it something valuable. Something that makes one’s entire life better.
    It changes the entire life to have more happiness.

    Can you comprehend why there is somebody who has found something valuable? No, because to you it’s useless. So is there a valid argument to change his mind? No, because the one has found something valuable for oneself.
    Do you personally have the right then to change his mind? No.
    What else is left now to you personally to point out the flaws? We know to you personally it’s flawed and hence useless. But what is your real intention to point out these flaws?

    Isn’t it your ego that cannot admit you would be happy like they are as well?
    Wouldn’t it be great to you to also have found something essentially important in life?

    They have found something valuable regarding self-awareness, no matter if you can comprehend that. That’s the difference. To you it’s flawed and hence you have to deny it, so your search has to go on.

    “The whole thing just seems too mundane to be the idea of a supreme being.”
    This is your opinion. The ‘whole’ thing is your interpretation.
    Whatever you think about a supreme being it appears to you like that.

    There are many places in the bible stating regarding god there is no hierarchy.


    “I was brought up to question things not to drink the Kool Aid offered.”
    Your personal benefit? To be happy not to become fooled by religions?


    I am no Christian. I am actually not religious, spiritual..probably. My ideology is based on practical experiences. My way to evaluate all that is and has been different to you.

    I asked myself, why are there wise people coming from different religions, yes even have caused those religions?
    Why are they happy, I mean perfectly happy and why can I feel their happiness?
    I have met / visited many different people in life of which I got that feeling. One of them had been the current Dalai Lama.

    So I have to think: If there is in religions something valuable regarding self awareness, then it must be present in all religions.
    My conclusion: It is the own personal mind that is not able to recognize the religion’s treasure.

    I myself then tried to get what I could. Science, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity.
    And there is a way to extract that treasure. Everybody can have benefit of it.
    My intention in such threads is to point out a own interpretation of something that is able to unite, that is able to address.
    To you who generally denies religion anything about appears to you as to be flawed and twisted.
    That’s why I have said the flaws you find are your own. One's mind is flawed.
    So the potential treasure is lost to you. (Does not exist to you)

    You have to get it from somewhere else, but you have to accept that there are people who have re-discovered it from religions, or a particular religion. :)
    The matter of religions is always something that cannot be expressed by the mind. And that is completely different to science. So the flaws regarding religions are always one's own.
    And yes I know that there are adherents of a particular religion which haven't got a true benefit of it. They were forced to be that or are fanatics.
    But actually I have not the right to judge about.

    It doesn't matter here..the point is that in religions there is a treasure for some of us. And to me reasonable is to skip what I cannot comprehend or seems to be flawed.
    Shall one care about others destiny or the 'own' first?
    I try to care about myself before I try to find flaws somewhere or at others. My flaws are reflected by the others. It's the ego that tries to project them outwards onto 'others', apparently to get rid of them. I need to know who I am, I do not need to know who the others are. When I know who I am then I know everything else.
     
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  4. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    @R29k,
    well, this being a forum, it goes without
    saying that everyone is entitled to his
    own opinion, and far be it from me to
    question that..
    but i do not think there is such a thing
    as an accepted view here..
    just people sharing their genuine thoughts..
    it is something i greatly appreciate,
    knowing very well that even after 60
    years under the sun i have not invented
    the wheel..
    and that is why i have my doubts about
    an attitude that is mostly cynical.
    i feel it contributes little to the
    discussion if a person is just trying
    to find his own truth, however
    subjective that may be,,
    regards, nodnar.
     
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  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    It's actually a topic to discuss in 'real' life. Gesture and facial expressions are additional ways to communicate beyond words.
    And these we cannot have here and are important when discussing a topic that is hard to wrap into words.

    So there can happen some little misunderstandings, because it's also hard to sort / interpret such posts.
    In a real life discussion which is personally one could say :Yen, you are again lost in your complexity and I could fit my expressions, lol.

    One thing I want to add. I know my posts are 'straight' and can have the touch of 'teaching'. But it's not my intention.
    It is also not my intention to 'offer' a better POV. My euphoria when posting might let it appear like that. But the only reason is that it's has an important meaning to me and is a treasure to me and I want to share it.

    So the message to R29k is just to say religions have some benefit to individuals, today they seem useless to you, but later in life you might find in it something valuable.
    When I was 14 and had confirmation in a protestant church, there had been an event called Creed.
    One needs to pray to god and to tell him the belief in god, a special prayer.

    Being 14 years old I disliked everything what is associated with Christianity, my future had been to become a scientist. Science and religion doesn't fit together, no, no.
    I thought I would learn a far superior 'theory' about the world. I pointed on flaws, yes I laughed about them and the people believing in god.

    Anyway at this day I 'talked' to god. I said: I don't know if you exist and I am sorry I cannot say yes, this is rather ridiculous to me. But since it's told you are here all the time I reply later in life..., probably, but only if you exist, lol.

    Later in life I had to recognize that I did some mistakes, which are reflected at the post above. I had to notice that it has been my own fault to exclude a part of humans culture, which is called religion and it had been my ego denying it.
    So my intention at the last posts is to say it's better to skip something one cannot comprehend ATM. To find flaws, to point them out and to disqualify others are only ways to push the ego. It's absolute of no own benefit.

    This life experience I wanted to share especially with R29k, no teaching. :)

    I am glad here are members who contribute with their thoughts, no matter what the thoughts are. It is really special, MDL a PC enthusiast's forum and a chit chat section where topics are discussed which are far away from logical linear thinking, which is to most PC related enthusiasts a common way to elaborate matters.
    It's a new experience to me and the first time to share this at the public.
    So if posts of me appear to be too 'personally' addressed, or even offensive and one feels uncomfortable, then I'm sorry in advance.

    I appreciate any post here, no matter what opinion and I am glad we have that way to communicate.
     
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  6. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    The day before yesterday I had the chance to take this picture. When seeing this sunset this topic came into my mind.

    "Moments where wishes hardly exist." :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. half Man Half Biscuit

    half Man Half Biscuit MDL Addicted

    Jun 1, 2011
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    #47 half Man Half Biscuit, Jul 1, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2012

    Mmmmmm doesn´t look like Berlin Kreuzberg lol ;)
    Tipical German Houses,roofs.
    At first i thought you catched a Alien somewhere in the picture,but after 10min searching you just posted a nice picture of the sunset Yenster :eek:

    Ohhh i would like to write here what i think,but if i want to write it as i would like too (about religion),i would get banned so nothing from me here.
    I know ancestor(v) is lurking around

    P.S. Yen ich vermisse dich ein bisschen,HDGDLFIUE = hab dich ganz doll lieb fur immer und ewig,mein freund (habs selber erfunden ahahaha)

    P.S. English I love you Yen for ever my baby boo :hug2: ahahaha
     
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  8. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Lol, yes it had a touch of revelation.
    It's nice to have you here, HMHB my friend, life would be too serious without you.:hug2:
     
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  9. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

    Jan 25, 2012
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    @R29k: We create this world every moment. GOD gave us free will. ;)
    There's no <evil>. We created the <evil> to better know ourSELVES. Some of US incarnate as "victims" some as "oppressors" and change roles in the next life. A "rich man" will choose to incarnate as "poor", to know and understand "poverty and humbleness"; some "doctors/healers" will choose to incarnate as "patients" just know and understand "pain".

    @nodnar...you're taking life [YOURSELF] too seriously...just relax.
    Playing with forms is the best game ever. :D
     
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  10. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

    Oct 15, 2011
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    #50 sid_16, Jul 3, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
    (OP)
    Some people equate free will with the ability to tell right from wrong or good from evil. Some also say it is a gift from God. That's is why I asked for free will to be defined.
    Please define God and free will separately then we'll discuss whether we've free will or does god exist , because the bold part of the quote depends on how you define both god and free will.:(

    And for the underlined quote, I don't believe in reincarnation, do you? or can you give any evidence or provide any plausible argument for/ of reincarnation?:confused:
     
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  11. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    To think that own will exists is actually an illusion, such as the own body.
    How does own will appear?

    When I decide to turn left when driving my car I get the impression that it's absolutely my own will.
    So the own will seems to be a free will.

    But every-body knows that things in life happen which are absolutely not wanted.
    Example: “God why have you approved that my mom has died????”

    Is that own free-will? No, it seems the 'own' will appears to be overruled will.
    So own will sometimes appears to be free will and sometimes not. So is it free or not?
    What is free will worth when the contrary happens, though?
    To have two completely different attributes indicates its illusionary character.


    The idea that god is a person and the idea that we are the body / mind, these both illusions cause the both appearances of the illusionary own will.

    When we use an idea, an image of god, then we get the impression not to have a own free-will, we think we have to accept somebody’s will (god’s will).

    When we think god does not exist we have still the illusion of a own will. Yes we even can strengthen that illusion, because god does not exist and hence no higher power who can enforce 'his' will upon me.
    Own means related to the illusionary body / mind.
    This will can appear to be own free will (driving the car).

    So can own will really be a free will?
    Own will cannot be free-will. Such will is affected by some-body. Either by god (somebody) or by an individual (human). Or by 'destiny'.

    So can own will conquer fate? Only if the will is used to recognize that there is no individual will and hence no individual fate. Only 'universal' will can be free. And that is the ‘true’ meaning of free will which is god’s will (god is no object!!!)

    Free will is a will no-body can have. And it’s actually the only will that is Real. Self awareness and free will are actually the same.


    Reincarnation (theory the way I have got it).
    Each religion assumes a wrong identity of humans. We have an idea who we are and this idea is mostly we are the body and have a mind. We see that as subject.
    This subject is in fact an object, an object that needs space and time to be seen.

    Then there will be a time where the body has to go. So 'we' are forced to give up our wrong identification. Depending on our wisdom there are more or less forces left which are addicted to the body.
    So if the forces are stronger than before then one grabs a 'new' body which is further away from self-awareness than a human being.

    So his new life will be not a human anymore, probably an animal in a new world.
    If the forces are weaker than before then the one grabs a body which has less physical limits. It can be compared with a dream body, a superior being, but is not yet at home, because there is still an idea of a body left. It can be angels, seraphs, saints, or simple a wise person.

    And when totally self-aware the one comes home and will remain in Reality.
    So in the aspect of Reality reincarnation does not exist.

    This theory cannot be disproved. I guess it's one's belief it will happen that way or not.

    So it is actually plausible that if one should have some body-affinity left, the fallacy will persist and continue thinking to be (another) body.
    This is called reincarnation.

    Btw: The moment of death never can be determined by the observer (the one who actually dies), so one’s true reality is to be eternal.

    If there is the observer who observes death, then the observer is still alive.
    So who should observe whose death???
    Death is always determined by another individual (doctor) who only determines loss of functionality of the body, which is an object. Since the doctor thinks he is his body he says the one has died.
    In fact it is just an object doing his only job which is to change itself.

    But everybody needs to find his 'own' truth in it.....
     
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  12. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    There is no "right" and "wrong". There's only experience. Playing with forms aka thoughts. ;)

    Yes, I do believe in reincarnation. I know I've re-incarnated here for one purpose: to better know my SELF and to know humbleness, to experience it, 'cause in a past life I've been probably a bad-ass mofo...maybe even hitler.
    And I know I have to learn the lesson of loving others and the lesson of humbleness.

    Free will as I see it: The Creator lets us <the divine sparks> to experience <life> in an organic form just to know how it is in the way WE choose. ;)
     
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  13. msr

    msr MDL Senior Member

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    #53 msr, Jul 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
    I want to see end of capitalism and end of the female gender.

    I will always be hoping for this till i die, and i think both will happen one day, we should all want stuff that will out live us.

    I think mankind will be one gender one day no matter what rubbish you hear today, and capitalism is just a garbage system for humans to be the worst scum imaginable.

    So thats what i would want and have wanted since at least 1993 since i left school.

    Its upto the human race to make it happen, and i think they will. If they want the one world gov it will only be done through socialism. The whole world cannot be sucking on resources like america. So the whole world has to be the same or there abouts, at least most of it.

    Personally i want nothing out of life, but the above two things.
     
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  14. 60cent

    60cent MDL Senior Member

    May 31, 2011
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    Yeah i believe in reincarnation too,but somehow if you look at it this way,if i´m a bad-ass in this life than in my next life i will be punished or live in very bad circumstances than its not fair.
    Why you ask,well if i would know that in my previous life i killed people or did bad things it would be fine,it´s your own choice,but if i don´t know anything and i have a bad life now because of my karma than it´s not ok :eek:
    And i think we all have our own destiny and that we can not run away from it,whether we want it or not.
    I mean with destiny when we are born there is exactly a path in our life that we must take or do and that we can not control all our choices that we do.
    That´s why i don´t blame people that are sitting in jail,it´s probably his destiny and he had to do what he had to do.
     
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  15. msr

    msr MDL Senior Member

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    #55 msr, Jul 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
    What about people sitting in prison who have done nothing wrong. What about the scum that put them there and are just pure evil, while the innocent person sits there rotting away? The rotten people that do these sorts of things are pure evil, and society has a majority of these wannabee murderers by using the police or gov to kill anyone they want.

    If there is such a thing as reincarnation, the ptb would know about it, and you can judge them by there actions, or lack thereoff, and how they are working the system.

    I assume the ptb think they are stuck here as they made some sort of deal to be stuck here, and its why they are as bad as they are.

    Charles manson remember did nout, but you people are murdering him for it. I wonder how he views it, and what energy you people are giving him as he is practically innocent as he never done anything other than what leaders do, i.e get others to kill. All our leaders are no different than manson, but he is sitting in jail while they are sucking up the cheers from the masses.

    I wonder how manson thinks, and how he knows he uses that energy, as they did it to him, and he did nout. I wonder how he is thinking in his situation.
     
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  16. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    So there is no right and wrong but yet you believe in karma. So why exactly are you reincarnated for again ? :rolleyes:
     
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  17. msr

    msr MDL Senior Member

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    #57 msr, Jul 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
    Absurdism is so much the world we live in. Irony plays a bigger role in this world than what ever you think karma is, if karma exists at all which i doubt. But like someone said if karma exists or not, whats wrong with the idea. Energy is all there is, and in this universe the shaping of that energy is what runs our world.

    Give you an example of irony. During ww2 why didn't america blow up the train tracks to the concentration camps to save lifes. So the irony is that america played its part in all those deaths, as it could of stopped alot of them. So isn't america just as guilty? But hollywood would tell another story. Yep the horrific things done in those camps, but the irony is that how come america never tried stopping them. They could of made it hard for germany to ship all those people in. So who is responsible for those deaths?

    Those camps and the holocaust thing must of been horrific, but why did america stand by and never try and stop the deaths? The deaths and horrific things must of been known to them. America where just as guilty as the germans. But american movies will never show why and how america never intervened.
     
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  18. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Because of his body-affinity, also called idividualisation, also called expulsion from garden eden.

    Reincarnation is only a stopover. So it doesn't matter if one believes in it or not.
    The idea of reincarnation is an idea of a humans mind.
    Reincarnation happens actually now and will end in the Self.

    Karma is the same as cause and effect. As long as one is affected by cause and effect as long one suffers from karma.
    Karma exists as long as there is an individual.
    One cuts oneself and the effect is pain. To cut onseself has had an other cause and has been its effect and so on....



    IMHO. :)
     
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  19. msr

    msr MDL Senior Member

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    #59 msr, Jul 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
    But if the ptb have made a deal and are staying here and part of that deal was they could be as bad as they want. You people never made that deal, and what does that make you and the masses? If the ptb are doing this stuff as they think they will be reincarnated here. What about those that have no deal made but are just as bad, where will they end up?

    You people should watch this

    video of PLATO - Allegory of the Cave
     
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  20. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

    Jan 25, 2012
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    @msr: who's this ptb?

    @R29k: we love to play with forms that's why we choose to come back again and again. ;)
     
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