Poor doctor...he'll see HIMSELF when his body will succumb. Some people don't get it. Lost in their own mind-games...
Socrate of2012, what you see is exactly what your brain tells you. What your brain tells you is based upon the information received from your sense organs. So the best you can get is- what you see is based upon the (narrow spectrum of, but not all of) electromagnetic waves hitting your eyes, that your eyes are adapted to relay to your brain. The brain does a lot of parallel processing very quickly and picks out a small portion of the information it receives to send to the top of the stack, which is what your consciousness pays attention to. Therefore, we see with our brain.
A body is just a empty corpse,without soul it couldn´t do anything. If you are hurt,sad,seek,happy... this are all states of what our soul feels,our body is just a material that is rotting away over the years and as our soul leaves it, it´s dead. Every day you have isolated feelings that are like single cells; put them all together and you have your emotional body. Your emotional body is, first of all, a living history of all the things you like and dislike, as well as your fears, hopes, desires, and so on.There are other bodies, also invisible, that add to your uniqueness. There is the body of knowledge that has been growing with you since birth–call this your mental body. Knowledge is subtler than emotions, since it is made up of abstract concepts. Even subtler are all the reasons you have for living, your deep beliefs about existence and the nature of life–all stored within your causal body, that part of you that allows you to understand existence. Here reside the deepest seeds of memory and desire. Identity–your feeling of being I–flows from your awareness of these bodies. The I that you identify with is created first by your beliefs and reason for living (causal body), which gave rise to ideas (mental body) and feelings (emotional body). Only at the end of the sequence does the physical body receive the impulse of life. Mortals believe that they are physical machines that learned to think. Actually, they are thoughts that learned to create a physical machine.
You are right. "We see with our brain" or You see with your brain, but that what sees is YOU. So who sees? It's neither the brain nor the body. Does the brain say: I can see??? It is you that says that. Hence you are the one who sees not your brain. You are the one that is looking out of your eyes. And I agree with nero100, the body alone can nothing, like objects cannot perceive themselves. And hence the one who sees never sees oneself. Seeing and to be seen does not coexist. Everything you can see is not yourself. So oneSelf is seeing by using the brain and senses, by making it 'alive'. When something is damaged then the one cannot see anymore because one cannot 'use' it to see. But there is 'somebody' that uses it and that is yourSelf. You are the driver, the body is your car. When it's damaged then you are handicapped. Add: So changing the car means to be reincarnated, the driver however is eternal. Not to drive anymore means to stay at home.
hm... all very nice thoughts. but. there is still a difference between things mechanical and the human body..[ or `soul`..] if your car or your lightbulb crashes, you can replace the parts, at a price, and it will run again.. if the human body crashes, end of the road.. just a few minutes without oxygen, and the old brain is as dead as the proverbial doornail. that is where your consiousness used to reside...and your perception of being me.. and now where is it, in a dead brain.. i wonder..
BINGO! sid_16, here's a fact for you: the so-called science is so far from the REALITY of things that it imagines all that "theoretical data". No eye can see, no ear can hear - they are just tools of the trade. @nodnar: the consciousness does not reside in the brain Whoever said that the brain is the place of the consciousness had no idea of what he actually said. The brain is just a 5 wholes filter for the consciousness. If the body gets damaged, YOU take another body. That's it. Until you're ready to move forward to the next level of awareness.
Socrate of 2012 wrote; While admitting that science and scientists are not able to explain everything, the fact remains that scientific explanations are the only credible ones we have. I am not willing to give the same weightage to your mystic explanations which is based on empirical thoughts, not tested and proved. Didn't you miss something here? Or you completely misunderstood me! But what I wrote in my last post was, the brain has the capability to visualize, of course your brain has visual faculties, where else would one keep them, in one's hand? And I think you gather light with your eyes, and you see with your brain. My evidence for this is that not all light that you are capable of seeing and which strikes your eyes is seen, and more importantly, not everything you see involves the use of your eyes. The other night I dreamed I was flying over the Himalayan mountains and saw a storm cloud on the horizon, and I have a reasonable confidence that I was not experiencing anything derived from the contemporaneous activity of light in my eyes. At least, I hope not.
Well what about organ transplantation? It also proves one is not the body. To replace a car's filters is like to transplant lungs. One's lung becomes your bodies' One's consciousness is not located in the brain, that is an illusion. Consciousness seems to be own, because one thinks to be the body. So the next illusion is to allocate the individual consciusness to the brain. Consciousness is responsible that there is a brain (objects) at all, but consciousness is not located IN the brain. sid_16, you think scientific explanations are the only credible ones we have. And you say: " I am not willing to give the same weightage to your mystic explanations which is based on empirical thoughts, not tested and proved." But in fact your arguments and statements about the brain are also not proved. So I wonder why those are more valuable to you. You are saying scientific evidence is needed for you but, where is it? I mean the prove that we see with our brain? Couldn't it be a part of the brain only? Hmmmm.....which one? In fact scientists know almost nothing about the brain! I had been involved in Alzheimer's disease research I know of what I am talking. First they thought brain cells and neuronal networks are built and when destroyed they can't be repaired. Then they discovered substances who are able to stimulate reconnecting of neurons. Yes even they can relocate. So where is the visual center of the brain? Scientists have today idea A and tomorrow idea B.....especially regarding the brain and consciousness. It actually doesn't matter, you can go on to explain and explain how the brain sees, what the eye can perceive what wavelengths and so on.....but what about what I have written??? It is YOU who sees and not the brain? Don't elude. And how do you determine credibility (of science)??? How establishes a scientist his reputation? Are you able to find this out for yourself? Maybe he has paid for his reputation! Would you be able to detect scientific fake? It's your pure own arbitrariness. I graduated with honors (best of the year, too), but you don't believe me. (I wouldn't believe myself either if I don't know myself) And I also don't see my scientifical knowledge to be valuable to me regarding those matters. It's here nothing worth. This is how I think about my scientific 'honors'. Don't get me wrong, I just want to say that there are other valuable sights of the matter outside of science one should not depreciate at first. Oh, come on! Don't you want to understand with intent? It is YOU that sees and hears by using your senses. Of course you'll lose the ability, because YOU cannot use them anymore when cut off. This only would work if sid_16 should be right. If the eye could see, the ear could hear (by using the brain) then they would still do it when one has died! Isolate the brain and the eyes. Isolate EVERYTHING you think is involved in your theory of seeing and ask them what they see ATM, sid_16. You may ask there at a autopsy...this will become funny I am sure.
@sid_16: well, it seems that you're able to fly, but you're mind keeps telling you "it's just a dream, it's just dream". You'll wake up sooner or later... [Remember MATRIX 1999 - the discussion between Cypher and the Agent in the restaurant] @R29k: that's called stupidity... @Yen:THANK YOU.
I have just imagined: sid_16 at a autopsy. The body is still alive. Now quickly cut off all he needs and asking the brain: Can you see me? Then nothing... because he had forgotten to isolate the mouth and the vocal chords. sid_16 forgive me please for this joke.
Which shows that they are integral to the process. As I said before in the tree falling thread, it is the brain that interprets the sound waves but you need sound waves to begin the process.
From where I sit, consciousness is not some philo-metaphysical argument. Conventional wisdom gives it an anatomatic and physiologic basis. What's most important is recognizing that the brain is not just one thing (esp. the cortex). Technically, it's the encephalon and has three major components encephalon structure The limbic system is particularly important because all sensory input and command output are channeled and filtered through the structures in this area; e.g. amygdala, hippocampus, thalamus, and reticular system. Although I only cursorily scanned this article, it does seem to be a fair discussion of this structure: Read more here. limbic system description
While "thinking" ("thinking" is not the word I should have used. I wanted to say "the general data processing that the brain does" and that would include anything from reasoning and analyzing to remembering, to having feelings, etc. I just couldn't think of the right word that would encompass it all.) is data processing, I think consciousness is awareness of the thinking process. That is the brain processing its own state changes which were brought about by the thinking process. It seems to me that consciousness is the kind of data processing that integrates the "thinking" in the bigger picture, that relates it to past memories, integrates it into existing personality, and that creates patterns for future behavior (imagination) and future thinking. There's good reading on the topic of consciousness-> just click here .
Yen sir, is not "you" a construct of the brain, a program, a collection of tendancies, desires and fears, the sum total of a bundle of memories...the brains interface with the external world?
If you read and understood anything in the Tree falling thread, they are saying that everything else is an illusion except the self. I would like Yen to explain to me if this theory is correct how come you need ears and eyes etc. Yen said this This is a contradictory statement to everything he has said before. If everything is an illusion including the body, as has been clearly stated in the Tree Falling thread then you DO NOT need eyes to see and ears to hear. The Self should be able to bypass all that and create the sound or image by itself. Which is why I said cut off the ears and eyes to see and hear better. Ref Post Yen if you are going to say that everything is an illusion except the self then you will raise one big problem. You should not need a body since you only really exist in the self so you don't need body parts, nothing is physical everything is created in the self. So why now say you need ears and eyes etc ? Saying you need those infers that you think there is a process involved in the hearing or sight rather than it all just being in the mind. You are basically flip flopping. As I said before my idea is that there are two realities, the physical one that functions on laws and goes on whether you are there or not to interpret it NOT create it. And the second is your personal reality, your interpretation of the physical one. This all happens in your brain. We hear because vibrations leave an object and enter our ear and the brain ascribes a meaning to what it receives. At least this fits to what we observe! And please if you are going to reply to this do so in a fashion that doesn't engender things that are magical in nature. Otherwise the whole thread loses value similar to what has gone on before. And I will stop posting in threads like these since it loses all meaning whatsoever! Simply explain to me why you need ears and eyes when in your opinion everything is an illusion !
It is true that science has not understood consciousness fully. But one thing has been clearly established beyond any doubt; that long term memory is stored in the brain as dendrite links. Then how can some one remember past life? Did Dalai Lama's soul carry the brain with it when it departed the body in the previous life? The fact that memory is stored on body cells turns the re-birth theory on its head. But blind faith will prevent some people from accepting this clear fact. I know you will defend it by saying souls don’t require a brain/body to remember things. Then how come the other souls don’t remember?
Would anybody care to define 'soul' and which part of the body is recognized as soul or where does the soul reside? Here I would like to ask When a person gets drunk his thinking is affected. Does the soul get drunk too? How is it that a simple injection to the body puts the soul to sleep? How is it that a hormone imbalance in the body creates mood changes? And how is it that a partial damage to the brain results in behavioral changes?
What a boring word 'self','soul' reincarnation etc. I'd asked a question in other thread about self and got no satisfying answer here it is To that Mr Yen said Is not the much used words 'self' and 'I' are illusion?