Something Unknown Is Doing We Don't Know What (2009) - a documentary to watch and learn. Why did Albert Einstein say "There are only two ways to live your life: one is though nothing is a miracle. The other is as everything is. I believe in the latter"? 'cause he's considered a "brainiac", isn't it? Well, I agree with the man 100%. Princess Nakamaru (Japan) and Leo Zagami about NWO: http://youtu.be/bb0hA1A5N8A http://youtu.be/NE6fcOjO1wM http://youtu.be/Mp-hJXZ3J2s
Due to my profession I have to meet many scientists. I differentiate two kinds of scientists: One-track specialists (Fachidiot) and open minded, intuitive scientists. To the latter I have respect, to the former a smile. To study science you need a lot of 'brainwork'. Ken Wilber himself is a scientist I am one, too. Anyway I know its limits. Albert Einstein was a 'brainiac' with a lot of self awareness and a genius. A good scientist never denies, his curiosity makes him to research, prejudice robs possibilities. And what I post here are not 'my' meditative experiences that are 'real to me' it are our all experiences. I am not the only one, sid_16. So either we all ('the spiritual people') have a mass psychosis or the broad mass is simply trapped in illusions which they call reality. Commonly the majority is that what is supposed to be normal. And the minority is supposed to be freaks. I am not alone, lol: BTW: There must be a reason why the 'wise' in history are always a minority, ever thought about that? Maybe 'wise' is just not true.....probably confused? Well everyone needs to figure that on his own...
I know, it was just a rant. Exactly! Thank you. Truth is not for the masses. They wouldn't know what to do with it.
One last reply from sid_16 (skeptic), you are engaging in magical thinking. As I stated at the beginning of this discussion, you are basing your beliefs on nothing more than a gut feeling. Such reasoning leads to all manner of fallacious beliefs, including religion and spirituality. Just because science cannot explain something does not mean we are justified in making up stuff to fill up the gaps in our 'subjective (mystic)' knowledge. I agree that the scientific method is not perfect, but it is the best we have. Magical thinking has not cured a disease, brought electricity into our homes, not discovered computer and internet to exchange our thought or figured out what those faint fuzzy patches in the sky really are. We will not make intellectual progress based on feelings. Methodological naturalism has a long and well-documented history of superior outcomes in terms of understanding the true nature of the real world. Dualism and other approaches relying on the assumption of a non-physical entity we cannot investigate except through thought and intuition or feeling has a long and well-documented history of failure in terms of understanding the true nature of the real world. While choosing the latter may have some benefits in psychological terms, it is important to recognize, it fails if our goal is to understand reality rather than merely cope with it. Some of us are able to compartamentalize their minds quite well and there's not much problem holding incompatible spiritual and scientific views at the same time. <EDIT> I promised myself not to post any comment here in this thread but you made me to do so, so I edited my last post. I still want to hear why the physical argument is flawed. The problem I have is that you haven’t completed the first step of establishing the real 'SELF' (Am I simply a set of chemical and biological reactions? Are my thoughts and actions just a result of these reactions? Or is there something more to me? What is it exactly that makes me ? May be, every seven years or so my body completes a cycle where it has renewed every cell it is made up of, in effect it is no longer the same body. However, I am still me, why do I still have this idea of me ? Is it then my consciousness and my memory that makes me? I remember my name, I remember what I did yesterday, last year etc. Do these memories go a long way to explaining my sense of 'I' ? ) this is a real distinction. I don’t see this “consciousness” you people talk about as distinct from the mind. Frankly, I doubt it exists. I think it is the illusion of the homunculus; the impression you have that the “real you” is somehow watching the processes of your body (and mind, as you define it) from a specific and distinct spot but separate from these. There is no evidence this is real despite how it feels to you. And there is evidence, from neuroscience and, since you seem to place some weight on such things, from Buddhist contemplative practices, that this unitary distinct consciousness/self you are talking about is an illusion. So all the implications of the distinction you’re making fail unless you can demonstrate the distinction by something other than how you feel when you introspect. The philosophical zombie problem then disappears if you take away the unnecessary entity of the consciousness/self. We are zombies in the sense that our behavior is generated by our physical body and nothing else. It is meaningless to say that we are different from the hypothetical zombie in that we have this mysterious entity of “consciousness” that you haven’t convincingly shown exists. Science cannot explain your definition of consciousness, therefore you are taking your speculations as truth. Not absolute truth, but truth nonetheless. OK, this is not the Philosophy forum, so existential discussions are/are not allowed (I don't know). The problem with such discussions is they lead nowhere, solve no problems, and provide no answers. Just speculate all you wish, but realize that you are not adding to your base of knowledge. Disprove me as a “physicalist” if you wish, but think on this: What scientific breakthrough has existentialist thinking produced? nothing... Just because science cannot explain something does not give us license/permission to go off on spiritual (i.e. supernatural) flights of fancy.We only know that what constitutes four percent of the universe. That does not necessarily mean someone’s god/or any supernatural entity created the other 96 percent. Science cannot adequately explain time. Talk to 10 physicists about the nature of time and you’ll get five or six widely divergent answers, none of which anyone with less than four semesters of upper division mathematics can hope to understand. That does not mean time is some mysterious entity existing outside our universe, it merely means our knowledge on science is incomplete. The same applies to mind/consciousness/self awareness etc. The current lack of a scientific explanation does not mean the answer lies outside our universe in a spiritual realm, it merely means our knowledge on science is incomplete. Furthermore, when science does finally explain mind/consciousness/self, many people are likely to dislike the answer. Have you ever read anything on quantum mechanics SOCRATE_MMXII? The universe is a very strange place, and there is no guarantee it will make sense to us when we figure it out. In fact, there is no guarantee we will ever figure things out. The universe does not care about us, and our limited senses and intellect may not be adequate to fully answer all these questions. The so-called "white light" is caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. It is plain to see that these afterlife experiences only happen to those who already believe in the afterlife. I was watching the Trinity network on TV the other day (always good for a laugh) and they done a study on the afterlife and NDE. They proposed that if blind people also had the same experiences then it must prove that there is an afterlife. (!) Off course they presented results where blind people did indeed say they seen tunnels of light, see dead relatives etc. Which begs the question, how did they know what there dead relatives looked like if they had been blind all their life? And how do they know what light even is? Here is an article by V.S. RAMACHANDRAN a Neuroscientist with an interesting explanation for OBE and the like. Thank you all for this discussion.
Thank you for your input, too, sid_16, I really enjoy to discuss here. I do not deny any kind of approach, my profession is science my private rather spiritual. As I have posted both have its place. Science for matters and progress of humankind in time, spiritual stuff for the 'own' mind regarding self awareness. Adherents of religions and scientists both have had their issues in history also eastern and western religion and science can be complementary and are treasures of the world. In my heart I want them united (actually they are already) . Acupuncture for instance (eastern science): Western people had been smiled at it and today it's an accepted treatment method in western medicine. This only could be achieved by tolerance of the individual scientists and by questioning recent theories. We have already a lot of wisdom spread all over the world and the own ego is responsible that some of these cannot unfold their particular power. There are other matters pure newton scientists are denying such as the theory of homeopathy. There is no real barrier between spiritual stuff and science, everybody can find matters which are fascinating and in between them. The brainwave experiment of Wilber for instance made me the first time curious about states of consciousness and the definitions of the brainwaves / states of western science. And already when I was a little child I felt...if there is a reality then it must be ever present, which means eternal. If it should be something that has to be gained in time (evolution) our ancestors never would have had the chance to experience it. In each atom there is the entire reality.
Dead wrong on this. 1.There would be NO DISEASE TO CURE, if the man had known himself. Sickness is a wake-up call. 2.Electricity is here for at least 5000 years of known history (check out Tesla and teluric energy and why we don't have it today - thanks to JP Morgan who couldn't make money out of it.). Understanding yourself = understanding your environment 3.internet? Telepathy was/is/will be here, but the rulers of society say "oh, it's not possible" and thus we don't cultivate it (guess what? one has to know itself in order to be able to do it.) 4.Clouds? You really think that man had no idea of what they are? Check old "magick science". My dear sid_16 WAKE UP!!! YOU'RE SLEEPING!
Sid_16, what is intuition? Is it a kind of magical thinking? It doesn't matter, but without it, science would have nothing achieved for humankind. Those famous scientists who have invented major things for humankind could only do that with their Self-awareness. I have said there are two different kinds of scientists, those who have access to their Self and those who have a pure linear and abstract way of thinking. The latter have nothing invented. They are here to collect data and interpret them...pure analysts. "Magical thinking has not cured a disease, brought electricity into our homes, not discovered computer and internet to exchange our thought or figured out what those faint fuzzy patches in the sky really are." This is not true. Don't you think they had a vision? A desire? How can one invent something that is not on earth before? From where comes that invention really? I don't know your definition of 'magical thinking', but with pure linear thinking no invention can be achieved... linear and discursive thoughts are related on existing matters. Intiutive can be only one who has access to his 'Self'. It's like a flash...you suddenly know the way how it works and there are no doubts left. One needs awareness to recognize the moment where it separates into 'parts in time'...then you can start to realize your vision / intuition and finally will get a new invention.
Well i haven´t read the whole thread but how much i got from what i saw is this: Sid_16 believes in things that science can explain Yen the admin is scientist him self and believes in both SOCRATE_MMXII believes in things beyond our wildest imagination to say it like that So i personally am more the type like SOCRATE_MMXII because i have experienced a lot of stuff in my young life that no scientist could explain and if would write a book of my experience without doubt it would be a bestseller. Sid_16 here is a little example of what i mean: One day my mom( oh god love her to death) went to a doctor,a routine check nothing special,as she was on the chair to get checked,she suddenly went through a tunnel with a very bright light at the end of it,when she arrived at the end some children where waiting for her and where dressed like in a wedding robe dunno how to call it,and dragged her to a small hill,suddenly a mans voice said get out of here,but my mom went further up the hill,so the voice said it again this time angrier ,but my mom said i like it here i´ll stay,and as she needed 1 more step to reach the top of the hill that voice said-Your time didn´t come and get the hell out of here. And that´t how she woke up and the doctors said we lost you there for a few minutes. So now the scientist would say you fell a sleep and dreamed because you where tired and slept bad the last night...bla bla bla 20 minutes later they diclare you crazy. I would say she was in heaven by god and her time didn´t come 1. more example: It happened last year in germany in munich,i had some work there to do and was in a hotel for 3 weeks,the first thing i noticed was every night at exactly 2:15 O clock i woke up,my body full in sweat and cold. Than one night at 2:15 something touched my wiener and than my stomach i tought i´m dreaming like what the hell,later that night i suddenly senced something pulling my pillow and my blanket and woke up,butt there was nothing. I got scared and couldn´t sleep any more,my head was facing the whole night toward the whole room,because if i turned my head to the wall,than who knows what would be standing behind me Now the scientist would say,you didn´t have sex for some time kid that´s your little dirty fantasy and you need a girl the faster the better. Well i had a girl and got my dosis regularly so i wasn´t hallucinating and it was a ghost and it scared me to death So here you see Sid_16 there are things beyond our understanding and that scientists only believe in things they see and when they don´t have a answer they declare us as crazy and we need professional help. I have had situations in life where i thought am i normal in head,what´s wrong with me am i the only person that has experienced such things and why me of all the people on earth. So try not to pay to much attention to scientists,you need to make up your own experience and built up a understanding for your self. Nothing bad meant with this post,just my opinion and what i´ve learned from life.
I just remember the time when I've studied Chemistry. I was difficult to handle for the doctors teaching us. I ignored those with a narrow limit of tolerance, those who are possesed by theories and did not tolerate even a bit of deviation. I became thrown out of the lecture room, not only one time. And I never forget the facial expression of the 'chief-doc.' when he had to congratulate me... They probably have been better in theories, but they have had no intuition. Finally there must be a reason why somebody goes to the pharmaceutical research a place where inventions are made and others stay at federal institutions where old stuff is administrated and data collected. I have been involved in several patents and have invented more than 500 different substances (together with my boss). I know how science invents and there is some magic needed. I didn't post that to boast, I did it because I know it practically.
@nero100, thanks for those private stories of your life, the one with your mom touched me. Only a few words this time to add. I have already said to me true is no perception without the seer. And no existence of the object without a seer. These are conditions of the (our) illusionary world!!! BUT in 'normal' life one says it is the reality and absolutely no illusion. OK. These 'my' 2 statements are also true vice versa. This means: There is existence of an object when there is one who perceives it (the seer). So that what nero's mum had perceived was as real to her as to others the so called reality, the world outside. But some egoist's way to think makes them to say that what his mom has seen is not real!!! The same what had happened 2:15 to you. It had been existent to you. No matter what anybody else says. To remain fair and logic: Either 'normal' life and that what your mom has seen is BOTH real, or both is illusionary. But definitely not one is illusionary (dream) and the other is real. But this pseudo-truth most are stating...some say that what your mum has perceived is 'not real' and do probably laugh about. Both things are as real as 'real' life.
I didn't say, what Mr Nero100 narrated in his post is unreal but said what has caused NDE /OBE. That story also touched me too.
No I mean: "So now the scientist would say you fell a sleep and dreamed because you where tired and slept bad the last night...bla bla bla 20 minutes later they diclare you crazy." I mean 'those' scientists nero100 mentioned say it must have been unreal, so I addressed those, not you specially.
Thanks guys didn´t think it would touch someone I just wanted too show Sid_16 and other "skeptic people" that there are things in this world that may seem unbelievable,but that doesn´t mean if someone didn´t experience the same things or maybe never will that others who did are lying or should be laughed at. We all have our own destiny and our own way which we need to take. We can have our own dreams of what we want to be,but at the very end we will be what is destined for us at the end,so people can pray,hope... but if it´s not going to happen it aint. You never know what will be with you at the end,maybe you dreamed of being an athlete and train very hard every day,never smoke,listen to the coach,never miss a practice...and after few years you never become an athlete,instead you become doctor,astronaut... And a guy who trained with you,smoked,never practiced as near as you, ,becomes a athlete better than you would ever be. Once i saw a rich man on TV and now the journalist asked him:How did you get all those Billions,what did you do? He just pointed with his finger to the roof and said:It wasn´t me,it´s my destiny to have a lot of money in this life and i can´t do anything about it,it´s just gods will. So here i wanted to say that it´s useless to cry about something,because you can´t do anything about it,if it´s destined for you you´ll have millions and reach your goal easily or hardly or you will always be pure and will always have trouble in life.
I can't restrict myself posting this and I already had said enough in my last post #125. I think you and other people are talking about differences in perception. If every one could perceive the world like you described, it would have been so nice but then life would come to standstill. . Let me say for an example, a hear say story about the Jog water falls in Karnataka in India. It is one of the most beautiful water falls in India. In early days It used to be only a tourist spot. Tourists used to write in the visitors' book comments like "the most beautiful place ever visited" etc. But once a lone electrical engineer in one of the tourist groups is said to have commented " what a waste". That is the difference in perception depending upon how you are trained to perceive things. Thanks to the different perception of engineers, to day the Jog falls produce the bulk of the power requirements of Karnataka State. So shall we reconvert all those places to tourist spots and praise its beauty and live without electric power? Extraordinary claims such as claims about soul, self, spirituality, afterlife etc.. that either ignore our already present knowledge of the world or simply have no evidence for them should be taken skeptically. If you claim for an example, you have a dog, I don't particularly have to be skeptical about that claim even though you may not present any evidence for it, because it's not an extraordinary claim and it really doesn't change anything for me (as opposed to the existence of souls, self,consciousness, karma etc). It really is that simple. Willfully being gullible is, on the other hand, quite far from intelligent.
Now, I'm asking you WHY is the perception of the engineer more real than that of an artist or a child? Hm...I think D) that your vision is limited so to speak. Why wasn't the Tesla electric power-plant put to practice? Why are the engines running on fossil-fuel instead of water (the technology exists since the beginning of the 20th century)? Why? Because "you" [which is the idea of you] need a "reason" to exist, but EXISTENCE needs no reasons. Why? Where? When? Are just limitations. Are "mental labels", nothing more. Why you're not skeptical if I say I have a dog, but if I say I have a lion, you need proof of its existence? Can you say what's determining the changing of "size" of measurement?
“It really is that simple. Willfully being gullible is, on the other hand, quite far from intelligent” Nothing else you are doing when believing scientists you don’t know and their theories. That what you call ‘our already present knowledge’ is knowledge of which you believe is right. It is separated knowledge and hence limited by yourself. Why is it an extraordinary claim when it’s regarding the Self, soul… ? It’s because you are afraid you could be wrong all the time hence you claim for evidence to protect your ideology. Your knowledge consists of that what you can accept most. But it is not satisfying to you, because that what you can accept most is not constant, it changes. And anything that changes cannot be the truth. BTW: Intelligence is not needed for Self awareness. Intelligence is needed to handle the complex constructions of relative aspects, which is nothing but to chain lose ends. This is the job of the mind and intelligence is an attribute of it.
How much i´ve got from this post is that you didn´t experience much in life to say it like that and that your vision is very limited. Lets take that example with the waterfalls just because one electrical engineer said it´s a waste,now all other people are dumb and he´s right? How much i´ve experienced with scientists and engineers for my self is,that they always talk the opposite of people who believe in god,soul,dreams... If i say the sky is blue the scientist will say no it´s red,if i say this is a dog,he´ll say it´s a cat and so on... I´ve talked to some so called "Extra smart Teachers,Scientists,Engineers" and what i figured out is they are not normal,they only know how to talk about there job and can´t even laugh with normal people,make a joke,even talk about normal life stuff,that is because they limited there vision to a point where they can´t even behave like normal people. Who can promise you that what the engineer,scientist... says is true,those are just people who doubt everything in life and how much i know with speaking to them,they don´t have a clue about life or anything. Ask a scientist who studies for example Geology,how does a womans body look like,or what makes a woman happy,well i´ll tell you the answer he doesn´t have a clue because he only knows to talk about stones,minerals,earth processes. This is something i learned from life,the real life. I´ll tell you who´s intelligent,intelligent is the guy who makes a lot of money with little effort. And just believing in things other people say or do,is even more further away from being smart/intelligent
What is original thought? We live in a time where the investors of the world are investing their money in "intellectual property" as the new hot commodity. It does not matter now, it would appear, where the origin of the thought emerged as long as one can legally claim ownership. I would ask who is gullible in this scenario and whether this perceived power/control of intelligence is the latest deception in a long line throughout history.. It reminds me of a time in my personal family history where the counties of Europe had squandered their natural resources and perceived wealth by being at war with each other, so they commissioned their people and the science of the day to explore the planet and find what it is they seemed to be lacking and to regain military superiority over their perceived enemies .. The Explorers marching orders seemed to be by any means necessary and as a result through their advanced weapons and lies proceeded through genocide to procure what they thought they needed.. Fast forward --> They ended up with the land and natural resources through lies, broken treaties, and the ability to map their illusion of legal ownership. All the while boasting to each other about their intellectual superiority and might.. So now we have people believing they own the land they live on.. @Sid given the electromagnetic properties and the malleability of gold, is it possible the planet over it's evolution moved the gold to the places where it best held itself into alignment and balance with the rest of the universe? and by humans randomly moving the gold to other parts of the planet it undermines the planets built in way to balance itself? Also Sid I would like your input on http://www.iatp.org/documents/corporatizing-water-india’s-draft-national-water-policy or weigh in here http://forums.mydigitallife.net/thr...-opinion/page6?p=595632&viewfull=1#post595632 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ The ownership of my distractions and barriers to Self begins by dispelling the illusions of self
This bit is just sooo wrong. Many times the guy who is earning the cash easily is doing something illegal, does that make him intelligent. Sometimes you don't see the other side of the coin, when he has to go to jail. There are many bankers that are doing a lot of distasteful things to make easy cash, if they are considered intelligent then I'm living on the wrong planet, please stop so I can get off. The other bit about believing is describing Religion perfectly. In science people must have a theory and then evidence to support it then it will be considered fact. No self respecting scientist will make crazy claims without something to back it up or he will get laughed out of the community. Crazy claims are in the realm of religion, for example the idiot preacher that was predicting when the world would end. Also remember if 1 billion people say the wrong thing it isn't right, it simply means you have 1 billion idiots who didn't know any better to figure out that it was the wrong thing.
First of all money rules the world today,that´s a fact and period.And if you don´t believe in that than something is wrong with you,i would call that (not to attack someone just my opinion) stupid or underexposed. "Many times the guy who is earning the cash easily is doing something illegal, does that make him intelligent" Well actually he is intelligent,if you do illegal things and don´t get caught than you are smart and earn my respect,those people should be admired and not excluded IMHO. Today the whole world turns around money and if you have it your more happy,look awesome even if your ugly as sh..,don´t have so much stress etc... "Sometimes you don't see the other side of the coin, when he has to go to jail. There are many bankers that are doing a lot of distasteful things to make easy cash, if they are considered intelligent then I'm living on the wrong planet, please stop so I can get off." Not all rich people do illegal stuff,it depends on how much guts you´ve got to do something new or create something new that gives you at the end millions of Benjamins. Some people who have no experience in life say i´m smart/intelligent because i finished school with the best grades,even finished college before time...bla bla bla There are millions and millions of those kind of people today on earth,finish school and work from (star to star) <-- to say it like that and what did that school bring to you? On the other side there are humans that didn´t finish 3 grades of school,can´t write properly,can´t speak and still got millions on there bank-account,so who is now intelligent? It does not matter whether you have school or not but instead how well you get along in life. You can be intelligenter than Einstein,Tesla... but at the very end it all depends on what you do with your intelligence and if you can use it well my friend