Well nero if money makes you happy and what not then you take all the cash on Earth and I'll take all the drinkable liquids and we will see who will be happiest. I'll give you 24 hours Money doesn't bring happiness, contentment brings happiness. If you are satisfied with what you have no matter how little then it will always be enough. Then there is the other side of things like a lot of those are around these days, making a lot of benjamins but still not enough. Brings out Shania link again
Well Sir R29k first of all Miss Shania is a lil hotty in my opinion so thanks for the link. Secondly-It´s better to cry in a Ferrari than in a Renault For me contentment is when i don´t have to work 10 hours a day and have to listen to a fat jerk of a boss that sits behind my neck and talks bullsh.. the whole day. You know he talks sh.. and he knows he talks sh.. but you still have to listen to him. Contentment means living a life only what i want to do without stress and that can only be achieved with money now a days my friend. If working 6 days a week for 10 hours a day is contentment for you than we surely have other visions of life my friend And please don´t come with the story friends are more important than money,because there are no real friends in this century that we are living in. P.S. Glad to see you around my friend
Your opinion of science and religion is distorted. You overestimate science and you disqualify religion by naming one idiot preacher, who undoubtedly exist. Science is a huge subject. You can separate it by using different ways. First the special subjects like Chemistry, Physics, Medicine. And within the special subjects : Research, Development, Applied, and Analytics. And you surely know there are good scientists and bad just like there are at any other professions. At your statement here you let science appear to be airtight. But you now (at the global warming thread) that it isn’t. There are fields which are well developed. Fields within one special subject, others are not. And there are general subjects which are poorly developed. Poorly developed are: Psychology, Pharmacology and questions about consciousness. For instance you can draw a structure formula on a paper of a organic molecule and I can synthesize it for you (assumed it is conform to the rules). So we have now a solid powder of a substance which had been never on earth. So my job is done. The model is ‘good enough’ to bring a substance from paper to reality. But you cannot say anything about its activity in human bodies. The model is not good enough. There is no obvious theory of that molecule regarding pharmacology. One can make some calculations, approaches to get some probabilities on which receptor the substance might interact. But to figure it you need to make test on isolated cells (in vitro) or even in vivo. As result you get statistics and we all know statistics can be manipulated. Science is as reliable and as honest as the ones who practise it! And that is not different to religions! The question of humankind about who we are is an old subject. Science and religion, both come from one motivation: Curiosity and the will to survive. And both have their same origin. In history there were times they were not separated yet. Life and death and inventions. Tribes had their specialists, Shamans, Curanderos and craftsmen. Because of their talents they got special functions there. Traditions are created and ceremonies, handicraft. This is science and religion. And their job had been the same already. Science to develop / research matters in time for progress in time and to survive in time. And religion / spirituality to research oneself. There are herbs which are used in spiritual ceremonies such has ayahuasca. There are a lot of ‘psychoactive drugs’ which are used in ceremonies. All have a long tradition, they are used to heal as well. Did they need scientific theories about those herbs? No. They simply are using them! Herbs are prior to science. Substances who are used as sacral drugs are able to explore the self. And when reading about attempts to describe those drugs by scientists I know that they know nothing. They try to fit their actions into their crude models of science and are debating about. Later they have to admit that such substances are hardly to classify. There were a few serious scientists anyway: Albert Hofmann and Stanislav Grof. And I have to notice again: Great scientists are scientists who are / were Self aware. They never denied philosophical or spiritual aspects in their life. Scientists who are purely focused on their science and theories and do not tolerate other aspects are bad scientists. I have to meet some of them as well and I do not hesitate to let them know what is my opinion about. I do not respect them! Modern science has become lethargic even due to all those theoretician. To administrate science and to formulate all those theories, validation, fighting, arguing, printing on thousands publications, having biased motivations, science has lost its vividness. Separation of science and religion has started with introducing the world religions. Modern science also tried to describe matters which has been the job of Shamans. Until today they are not able to. They never will be because they are using theories, theories are located in the mind. And they try to measure what others simply are experiencing. They waste their time sitting behind of a measurement device. And what’s even more ironic, connected to a measurement device they will determine our death!!! Poor science! Finally some more words about contentment / money. It’s an attitude. To be self aware brings contentment. And if one’s life is without it then the one is responsible for it. To project the faults and reasons on others / ‘the’ society is hypocritical and to think money will bring it is another bad mistake, too. One has to cultivate it. Contentment without to know who one is, is not possible. Contentment which is dependent on objects is no real contentment., hence money brings no real contentment.
Thanks for your post Yen.. I hesitate to bring this into the discussion but it may give clarity for some on how and why at a tribal level the awareness of certain herbs came to be .. There are many stories of these things amongst tribal oral history that illustrate how medicine was revealed in a holy way.. It is clear for some such revelation is beyond their reach because they are unwilling or fearful of discovering themselves.. This story illustrates one instance of many and how the discovery of such revelation came to be.. This is how Grandfather Peyote came to the Indian people. Long ago, before the white man, there was a tribe living far south of the Sioux in a land of deserts and mesas. These people were suffering from a sickness, and many died of it. One old woman had a dream that she would find a herb, a root, which would save her people. The woman was old and frail but, taking her little granddaughter, she went on a vision quest to learn how to find this sacred herb. They walked away from the camp until they were lost. Arriving at the top of a lonely hill, the grandmother made a brush shelter for herself and the young one. Without water or food they were weak, and as night fell they huddled together, not knowing what to do. Suddenly they felt the wing beats of a huge bird, an eagle flying from the east toward the west. The old woman raised her arms and prayed to the eagle for wisdom and power. Toward morning they saw the figure of a man floating in the air about four steps above their heads. The old woman heard a voice: "You want water and food and do not know where to find it. I have a medicine for you. It will help you." This man's arm was pointing to a spot on the ground about four steps from where the old woman was sitting. She looked and saw a peyote plant - a large Grandfather Peyote Plant with sixteen segments. She did not know what it was, but she took her bone knife and cut the green part off. And there was moisture, the peyote juice, the water of life. The old woman and her granddaughter drank it and were refreshed. The sun went down again and the second night came. The old woman prayed to the spirit: "I am sacrificing myself for the people. Have pity on me. Help me!" And the figure of a man appeared again, hovering above her as before, and she heard a voice saying: "You are lost now, but you will find your people again and you will save them. When the sun rises two more times, you will find them." The grandmother ate some more of the sacred medicine and gave some to the girl. And a power entered them through the herb, bringing them knowledge and understanding and a sacred vision. Experiencing this new power, the old woman and her granddaughter stayed awake all night. Yet in the morning when the sun rose and shone upon the hide bag with the peyote, the old one felt strong. She said: "Granddaughter, pray with this new herb. It has no mouth, but it is telling me many things." During the third night the spirit came again and taught the old woman how to show her people the proper way to use the medicine. In the morning she got up, thinking: "This one plant won't be enough to save my people. Could it have been the only herb in this world? How can I find more?" Then she heard many small voices calling: "Over here, come over here. I'm the one to pick." These were peyote plants guiding her to their hiding places among the thorn bushes and chaparral. So the old woman and the girl picked the herbs and filled the hide bag with them. At nightfall once more they saw the spirit man, silhouetted against the setting sun. He pointed out the way to their camp so that they could return quickly. Though they had taken no food or water for four days and nights, the sacred medicine had kept them strong- hearted and strong-minded. When they arrived home, their relatives were happy to have them back, but everybody was still sick and many were dying. The old woman told the people: "I have brought you a new sacred medicine which will help you." She showed the men how to use this *pejuta*, this holy herb. The spirit had taught her the ceremony, and the medicine had given her the knowledge through the mind power which dwells within it. Under her direction the men put up a tipi and made a fire. At that time there was no leader, no roadman to guide them, and the people had to learn how to perform the ceremony step by step, from the ground up. Everybody, men and women, old and young, ate four buttons of the new medicine. A boy baby was breast nursing, and the peyote power got into him through his mother's milk. He was sucking his hand, and he began to shake it like a gourd rattle. A man sitting next to the tipi entrance got into the power and caught a song just by looking at the baby's arm. A medicine man took a rattle of rawhide and began to shake it. The small stones inside the rattle were the voice of Grandfather Peyote, and everybody understood what it was saying. Another man grabbed a drum and beat it, keeping time with the song and the voice inside the rattle. The drumming was good, but it did not yet have the right sound, because in that first ceremony there was no water in the drum. One woman felt the spirit telling her to look for a cottonwood tree. After the sun rose, all the people followed her as Grandfather Peyote guided her toward the west. They saw a rabbit jumping out of a hole inside a dried-up tree and knew that this was the sacred cottonwood. They cut down the tree and hollowed out the trunk like a drum where the rabbit hole had been. At the woman's bidding they filled it with fresh spring water - the water of life. On the way back to camp, a man felt the power telling him to pick up five smooth, round pebbles and to cover the drum with a piece of tanned moose hide. He used the pebbles to make knobs around the rim of the drum so that he could tie the hide to it with a rawhide thong. And when he beat the drum it sounded good, as if a spirit had gotten hold of it. When night came, the people made a fire inside the tipi and took the medicine again. Guided by peyote power, the old woman looked into the flames and saw a heart, like the heart-shaped leaf of the cottonwood tree. Thus she knew that the Great Spirit, who is also in Grandfather Peyote, wanted to give his heart to the red men of this continent. She told the man tending the fire to form the glowing embers into the shape of a heart, and the people all saw it beat in rhythm with the drum. A little later, one helper who was under the spirit power saw that the hide rope formed a star at the bottom of the drum. He shaped the glowing coals of the fire into a star and then into a moon, because the power of the star and the spirit of the moon had come into the tipi. One man sitting opposite the door had a vision in which he was told to ask for water. The old woman brought fresh, cool water in a skin bag, and they all drank and in this way came under the power. Feeling the spirit of the water, the man who was in charge of the fire shaped the embers into the outline of a water bird, and from then on the water bird became the chief symbol of the holy medicine. Around the fire this man made a half-moon out of earth, and all along the top of it he drew a groove with his finger. Thus he formed a road, the road of life. He said that anybody with the gift of *wacankiyapi*, which means having love and heart for the people, should sit right there. And from that day on, the man who is running a meeting was called the "roadman". In this way the people made the first peyote altar, and after they had drunk the water, they thanked the peyote. Looking at the fire in the shape of the sacred water bird, they prayed to the four directions, and someone sprinkled green cedar on the fire. The fragrant, sweet-smelling smoke was the breath of Grandfather Peyote, the spirit of all green and growing things. Now the people had everything they needed: the sacred herb, the drum, the gourd, the fire, the water, the cedar. From that moment on, they learned to know themselves. Their sick were cured, and they thanked the old woman and her grandchild for having brought this blessing to them. They were the Comanche nation, and from them the worship of the sacred herb spread to all the tribes throughout the land. - Told by Leonard Crow Dog at Winner, Rosebud Indian Reservation, South Dakota, 1970 I would like to add for many tribes not telling the truth had grave consequence because you could be banned from the tribe and in those times that would have meant most certainly death without the support and protection of your tribe..
@Yen You denigrating a part of the whole in relation to Science still does not change the fact that Science is based on a process and Religion is not! I am certainly not going to stereotype and say Science functions perfectly, as in anything it has flaws. But it is far better than Religion on which the whole basis is generally flawed. An example, I could come out tomorrow and start my own Religion, let's call it Mudism, it can involve us worshiping mud and calling it our God. We can have a big pool of mud in our church and our services can be mud baths. I can guarantee you that I will have followers and can collect dues without having to provide any evidence to show that mud is God. Nero said this: If you were to point that and say it's science then you full well know that it is not, but it describes Religion perfectly. Also the conclusion he comes to "...even more further away from being smart/intelligent" is correct!
Wrong! Only 5% of <Science> can be proven. The rest is just like religion: only bullsh!t. We are not talking about religion here, which I have to agree with you that's bullsh!t, just like mainstream science.
Well there is probably something about religion,but the stuff that the church and other religions tell us,is definetly bulls**t. I believe there is a god but not what the church says how it is
@redroad Thanks for that story. I have much respect for traditions, especially ceremonies which are made to unveil the 'Self'. No matter what it is. In that context I want to mention Albert Hofmann's story as he went to Mexico (Huautla de Jiménez) to explore the Teonanacatl. Curandera Maria Sabina led the ceremony. This story is rich of topics. It is a story of confrontation of tradition and foreign people, it's about desecrating, medicine of nature and synthetic principles. It is a story of respecting the nature and the attempt of commercialization. A story of betrayal of spiritual traditions and of revenge. A story of confrontation of modern science and the principles of sacral drugs. It is the story of exploring one's Self versus the objectified western science. Hofmann himself was able to classify those drugs and could handle them. But he was a foreigner who bolted in...he disturbed the traditions and assumed at home the western society would have the same maturity and respect he has had. But he was wrong two times. They (the inhabitants) later burnt down the house where they had the ceremony. And other scientists who were involved such as Timothy Leary ("Turn on, Tune in, Drop out!") propagated hallucinogenic drugs for everybody to have accessible. Hofmann himself had no other way, being researcher he accidentally synthesized the most potent hallucinogenic substance and later he figured that it's related to the substances others are using as sacral drugs for more than thousands years. He was a man who is very Self aware, but he had to feel the hard way that you cannot bring a treasure to another society which is not experienced with it and there is no access.... -A foreign scientist came to Mexico interested in their most intimate and holy traditions and ceremonies. -A scientist who has accidentally synthesized the active principle of their holy herbs and mushrooms. -An individual who has been confronted with an action of a substance the western world never had been thought of. -His own benefit of it and the idea to share this treasure of sacral drugs. -And finally the insight that 'a society' has to be ready for such an immense power and that the treasure in them cannot be shared. It cannot because the treasure is not IN the substance, the treasure is to unveil one's SELF! -And finally the failure to try to get benefit at other indications of different sicknesses. The same it is with any other spiritual rituals and the religions, it's nothing for people who are not ready to explore their 'Self'. It becomes even more difficult when one is not involved in their culture and traditions. Let me quote myself: "And their job had been the same already. Science to develop / research matters in time for progress in time and to survive in time. And religion / spirituality to research oneself." R29k you are probably right. You'll get adherents of your new religion. But only because there is one thing, the thing the entire topic has as an issue. You cannot objectify what you are and that absolute subject is not different to god. Religion has also a progress, the progress is to interpret their allegories modernly so that they can gain access to the Self. The matter itself is always the same though and that is Reality which never changes. People have to be open for them and should turn towards to them when the time is right. To proselytize never is the right way.
Yes! I've always stated that: institutionalized religion is BULLs**t! Why? Because it's based on FEAR, not LOVE; because it loves MONEY more than anything; because they desecrated a symbol (Jesus) to their own material benefit. That's WHY, religion IS BULLs**t. I've never seen a priest who said: "if you want to know GOD, turn your attention inwards" "pray with love in heart, not demanding material stuff nor cursing others".
Religion itself is neither good nor bad. It are the particular institutions who are (relative to someone). And yes there are priests who are able to tell about Christianity in a modern vivid way. Anyway I don't go to a church service for myself. I go when there is a wedding ceremony of friends or somebody has died and there is a funeral...but I like to visit churches when they are empty because of their architecture and quiet atmosphere. I also like to visit temples for the same reasons.
If your definition of religion is B.S then what would you call this from a spiritualist's point of view" Each soul is potentially divine. The goal is to manifest this divine within, by controlling nature, external and internal. Do this either by work, or worship, or psychic control, or philosophy, by one, or more, or all of these—and be free. This is the whole of religion. Doctrines, or dogmas, or rituals, or books, or temples, or forms, are but secondary details". If there has been one case of experience in this world in any particular branch of knowledge it absolutely follows that this experience has been possible millions of times before, and will be repeated eternally. Uniformity is the rigorous law of nature; what once happened can happen always...... Swami Vivekananda.
To Red Road; The link about water resource planning is also a good one. We are taking the "what a waste" concept far too far I think and converting the planet to a waste dump.. Loggers look at the forest full of trees and think "what a waste". Real estate agents look at the green agricultural fields and think the same. It is necessary to have a balanced approach for everything, be it water or electricity or any natural resource. Unfortunately some of us considered children as God' gift and went on multiplying forcing us to over exploit our resources. In addition we have taught our children to live with abandon with the result, where ever we look we see waste (garbage).
60cent: SOCRATE_MMXII: I think that SOCRATE_MMXII is meaning the same thing as me. "Pray with love in heart, not demanding material stuff nor cursing others" this is what i´m thinking too. I don´t go to church,honestly i went there for 2 times. I think the people that believe in God with there heart are the ones really believing in him,to say it like that. Now this is something i´ve experienced many times and it´s 100 % true,but it´s sad that it is this way. The people that go every Sunday to church,pray every day before sleeping,always talking about God...etc those are the worst people on earth they go to church to cover up their things they do to other people and those are really bad things. You can do bad things,curse others... but in the end it will always catch up to you and you will get your punishment. Doesn´t mean now all people are bad there are always exceptions. I can sit at home and believe more in God than the guy that sits for 6 hours every day in church and pretending to be a follower of God. You have to be pure in heart nothing else matters. Today the whole world has turned to evil,we hear more often from abuse in the church and things like that. So the preachers are nothing better than me or you and why should i listen to him when he´s a human of blood and flesh like me?
Yen sir wrote; Religious institutions blackmail people in the name of god. It is a pity to see poor people offering their meager earnings to the wealthy priests in the name of god. If we read these religious books more carefully and one will see how it advocates slaughters of innocents. There is no true religion, in my opinion. This dispute has been going on for centuries and all modern religions “evolved” from myth and extremists have been killing each other over these myths for centuries too. Its not people who make religion look bad. Its the religion which makes us evil. As it has been depicted in Geeta,Quran or in the Bible reading those holy books is the best way to become an atheist.
People are complaining about religious institutions and about their faults. They make people to spend money, they secretly hoping they can get rid of suffer when spending money and the religious institutions take benefit of it and even promise relief. And there are scriptures, which are hardly accessible and understandable. There are extremists who are using those scriptures as vindication for atrocities. Each religion has its institutions with active people. There is no exam about Self awareness. There is no way for an individual to determine the maturity level regarding self awareness of others. So what is the ‘right’ behaviour for everybody of us? It makes no sense to care about the others. It makes no sense to complain about religious institutions. I don’t need to go to there if I don’t want. I don’t need to read the bible if I don’t want. I have to take care of my own spirituality and my own Self awareness. Everyone has a great variety to hear of teachings, books, religions, yes people generally. There are right ways and traps. Our job is to find what’s right. As long as one is an individual one suffers from cause and effect (karma). And if one should choose ‘the wrong way’ then the one has to suffer. And in this situation there is for each individual a own way, which is different for each individual. It is the individual’s destiny. And to judge about another individual is not my job. Btw: Marriage and familly in the sense of Christianity means to give up the individual (body / mind = ego) as a preparation of complete Self awareness. I see myself in you! I can see what you feel. 'I truly love you' (there is no difference between 'us'). The 'outer values' created by perception (mind) such as appearance disappear and lose meaning and the inner value (Self) 'melts' together..... And to have a family is to pass this awareness (which is true love) to the kids, the 'Christian values'. To think about the others and their faults and to find issues in religions is a waste of time. When an extremist thinks he needs a suicide belt to come to heaven with virgins then it is his way. Each individual would make a better use of the life span when caring about oneself / own family. Our 'wise' had no family, though. It doesn't matter since those 'wise' are no individuals. Christianity says build a family. Other religions don't mention family. It doesn't matter, what is important is to make the effort. OWN effort. "Do this either by work, or worship, or psychic control, or philosophy, by one, or more, or all of these—and be free. This is the whole of religion." Each individual acts through the own motivation. Own values, ethic and moral. There is no absolute (to them), so there can be anything relative right or relative wrong. So each individual does what it thinks is right and avoids what it thinks is wrong. Fanatics have an image of god. Into this image they dump everything and when dumped it becomes holy and right and ‘told from Allah’ This is one of the major traps. To make an image of god. The other is to equal the Self and the ego. This is often made by dictators. Ok I stop here to enumerate. Many still have not experienced what it means to be (the Self). And hence to be the individual (body and mind) to have an opinion / belief is just the same the others do, the others some here are complaining about (about the people who are working at religious institutions). They have just the same motivation, they do what they think is right. “Its not people who make religion look bad. Its the religion which makes us evil.” This is completely wrong and an attempt to deny responsibility. Religion never killed people, it are people who kill others. Each individual has to go its way and if it should be the way to kill in the name of god then it has to be that way. The condition of an individual’s mind with all the ethic and moral and values is how it is. And that way will be ‘his’ life’ in time, his cause and effect his karma. But each individual has (and therefore we had become human) the ability to accept or to deny. There is no coincidence of events. Each individual harvests what it has sown. The time when there had been the attempted assassination on the pope 1981….I later could not understand why the pope had forgiven Mehmet Ali Ağca his attempted assassination already when he still had been in the hospital. 2 years later the pope has visited him in prison. Today I know why he did it. It is simply a normal reaction of one who is Self aware. I have to admit the religious scriptures are hardly accessible. I myself came from science to Buddhism (there is no ‘book’). Many years later I picked up the bible again and could resolve some allegories and could recognize that the essence is the ‘same’. “Each soul is potentially divine.” Make the best of it. Each bad thought is an addition to the world’s evil as long as there is an individual. Add: If one doesn't find something valuable in religions, skip it. 'Religion' is just a own idea of something that changes in time.
OK, but I think (oh, boy, not again! ) mr.Swami is describing the trap of yoga gifts. I don't want to control nature, nor have psychic powers. I am a divine spark manifested as is every1 in the universe. Indeed yoga masters can control nature and so on, but if they forget the goal, then they are stuck at that level. LOVE IS EVERYTHING. It's useless to have all super-powers if you're empty of love. I'm not angry at religion. Not at all. Right now, I feel compassion for people who see the truth, but can't recognize it. "Who has eyes to see, ears to hear." Peace.
"Ain't no hustle like religious hustle cause religious hustle don't stop" - translaion: "Nothing better than to make people believe that God wants your money,let me take it for you for him, you will feel better in the end."