Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Deleted member 1254778, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2861 Yen, Aug 2, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    Lol are you kidding me? :) From where?!? Israel or UK?

    To the topic "knowing current level of the vaccines protection"....

    You should know me. I always look at the sources not at 'articles' from somewhere.
    If you would do that as well you notice there is a huge difference in results. (UK study compared to Israel).

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?query=featured_home

    And here original Israel data (even in Hebrew) tables are sort of English, too.
    https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/repor...ications_corona_two-dose-vaccination-data.pdf
    Last page of the pdf..very interesting..!!!

    Israel finds that the Pfizer vaccine is declining in effectiveness whereas the NEJM study from UK results in a robust effectiveness after 2nd vaccination.
    Even the mainstream newspaper are picking up this discrepancy.

    https://www.jpost.com/ israel-pfizer-news/is-israel-or-the-uk-right-when-it-comes-to-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-674766

    Oh and btw.....the wallstreet journal has picked up the IVM story.
    The article is not free, but actually enough....

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-iv...s-anti-science-11627482393?mod=article_inline

    "Why Is the FDA Attacking a Safe, Effective Drug?
    Ivermectin is a promising Covid treatment and prophylaxis, but the agency is denigrating it."

    gorski, you are clearly on the wrong side saying there is no safe drug which can keep pace with the vaccines....truth will unveil...but sadly slowly on the costs of people's life.

    And the data about the vaccines are not sufficient and that much inconsistent to say something about the vaccine's approach to fight the pandemic.
    Since fatality rate of COVID-19 is low either way it can even turn out that the vaccines don't add some noticeable absolute benefit.
    When only 10% get severe, it doesn't matter if the effectiveness is 86 (January blue bars) or 91% (all fully vaccinated)

    But I am glad that you have a clear idea about the vaccines; I don't have that. :)
     
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  2. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    SMACK!
    RIGHT IN YOUR PINK CHEEK @gorski
    :tooth:
     
  3. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Spike protein is cytotoxic. It's known for causing all covid-19 symptoms.
    Spike protein is found in the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2
    New gene therapeutic inoculations subvert your genetic machinery to fabricate spike protein
    ERGO
    New gene therapies platforms wrongly called vaccines are extremely dangerous.

    PERIOD
    NO NEED TO DISCUSS ITS EFFICIENCY WHICH CLEARLY DOESN'T EXIST.
     
  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #2864 gorski, Aug 2, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    No, @Yen, you do not. You are indeed confused. (In fact, you are adrift for quite a while now, as I have consistently pointed out with some solid grounding... From one end of the spectrum to another, you're all ovr the floor in this thread, on this issue... It's quite a spectacle, actually, so LOL, indeed [much as I hate to use it]!!! At least to some of us who are consistent and can understand the public health issues....) Confir with USofA data. We all can. Stop trying so desperately obfuscating the obvious...

    Here is a challenge: find similar data for IVM and that floor cleaner miracle drug that X is getting high on... Pretty please.
     
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  5. Palladin

    Palladin MDL Senior Member

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    Interesting discussion of Sterilizing vaccines vs the Covid-19 jab which is non-Sterilizing

    https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243127

    .
    To be sterilizing a vaccine must prevent infection. Since you never get infected you never replicate the virus and thus do not shed it. If you do not shed it the potential path of the viral life-cycle for that particular infection ends with you and thus you cannot pass on or cause a mutation. You are sterile against that disease; from the point of view of the virus you are a lifeless rock. Among commonly-used sterilizing vaccines are MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), Varicella (chicken pox), OPV (oral polio) and others. The only time that such a vaccine fails is when you do not build immunity (such as due to immune compromise.) This is extremely rare and the protection from such vaccines tends to be either decades-long or lifetime.

    A vaccine that is not sterilizing permits the virus to infect you and replicate and as a result you can infect others. Technically it is not a vaccine at all (which by definition prevents infection); it is a prophylactic therapy. Such a "vaccine" instead acts to reduce or eliminate symptomatic disease. You don't know you're sick and you don't get sick. You don't go to the hospital and you don't die. Unfortunately since you don't know you're sick but are infected and the virus is both replicating in you and shedding you are more-likely to spread the infection to others. All of the current Covid jabs are in this category and so is, for that matter IPV (injected polio vaccine -- the original Salk discovery.)

    .
     
  6. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2866 Yen, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
    The PCR method to detect 'infections' has got EUA even though it was never validated. It is based on the so called Corman / Drosten paper.
    This is the very core of the imaging of the pandemic. We here are familiar with PCR tests. I had discussed the Corman paper with some colleagues. It has serious flaws at its methodology.
    I wrote:
    In other words. People still can get at one lab positive and at another lab with the very same sample negative.
    There is still no standardized method all the labs are following. It's a joke and no science at all.

    The CDC asks now the FDA for withdrawal of this EUA of their CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, applying a general validation and new methods. They also want to go for a multiplex method at which they also can detect other viruses in order to save money and to detect multi infections.

    The preferred method 'PCR' still remains I suspect. But they generally speak of molecular in vitro diagnostic (IVD) assays.
    This is way overdue. It will result to a far clearer image of the pandemic.
    It's like buying new validated and calibrated scales, re-do weighing and getting new data about people's weigh above 100 kg (my example to illustrate)...


    It's nice to make a statement about me, the person.
    But to get a progress for yourself do that about the data I am posting.
    I did that already and came to an conclusion according to my profession.
    This does not apply to the IVM data alone. This also applies to the vaccine related data as well.

    My assertion before the mass experiment has started.
    Today we know. Sterilizing ABs at vaccines are an exception.
    All those vaccines against SARS-COV-2 do not have it.
     
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  7. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #2867 gorski, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
    Not the person, @Yen - but your public statements on these issues and it doesn't take a genius to see you being adrift, sorry...

    Again, you are selectively neglecting a huge proof re. vaccination programme, in huge numbers, unmistakable numbers and yet you choose to have a blind spot, a methodical blind spot because you previously painted yourself into a proverbial corner...

    But I fear not for you, you wriggled out from such tight spots before, into yet another tight spot... and so it goes... :p
     
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  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  9. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2869 Yen, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
    I don't know how I can be more consistent as I was already at this post 05.12.2020

    https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/coronavirus-discussion.81224/page-83#post-1634249

    The challenge is on your side. To understand the data. :)
    And never forget. Those vaccine study's participants of 20,000+ ...it doesn't matter how many participated.

    Not even 200 of those got infected to determine 90%+ efficacy. This weak dataset lead to EUA already!
    A IVM study which includes 200+ infected people is already superior with regard to the dataset (n).

    Choose your own https://c19ivermectin.com/
    Current database : 104 studies, 67 peer reviewed, 60 with results comparing treatment and control groups

    You should rather think about if the public health authorities can afford to be wrong with IVM at all and not granting EUA!!! Irresponsible is that!
    Even if its efficacy shouldn't be great (what's not true) it is one of the safest drug we have got.

    [Dr. Robert Malone Talks Censorship | Interview
    He also talks about IVM.
    If you don't want to make efforts to read studies at least hear him.
    It's part of history of medical censorship. Talked about by the inventor of mRNA tech himself!
    Wake up!
     
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  10. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #2870 case-sensitive, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
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  11. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Interesting approach

     
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  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Look, I know you kept changing your stance and it was wild, so not gonna waste my time on that, @Yen...

    And I am not claiming anything about IVM - you are, so the onus is on you!!!!!! Not on everything it does, JUST on C-19!!! I dare you!!! Surely all those gurus of yours would have conjured up something definitive by now - if it were that good and there is "strong evidence"...?!?

    Here, some good outta this mess, perhaps: https://www.theguardian.com/science...ug-could-help-reduce-heavy-menstrual-bleeding
     
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  13. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  14. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2874 Yen, Aug 4, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
    I quoted that once, but only to quote something of myself from a previous post (predicting that covid vaccines won't be sterilizing).
    Now referring directly to the content.

    "If you do not shed it the potential path of the viral life-cycle for that particular infection ends with you and thus you cannot pass on or cause a mutation."

    That is right, but it does not mean that the virus does not mutate anymore. To mutate it needs a susceptible host, yes. But the mutation rate is a natural attribute of the virus, too.

    If the covid vaccines would be sterilizing you would force it to mutate in unvaxxed persons. The original variant would extinct, the mutations escape. You cannot vaccinate all people on earth and we are speaking about a zoonosis.
    Remember those minks they have killed?
    The virus would hide in animals, mutate there and jump back on humans as soon as it has escaped sterility. The reason (major reason IMHO) why you have a lifetime protection at measles, mumps and rubella is that they do not mutate.
    For instance the surface proteins that the measles virus uses to enter cells are ineffective if they suffer any mutation, meaning that any changes to the virus come at a major cost.

    Either way..at covid vaccines we have this situation:

    When you get vaccinated you usually (except immunocompromised people) have full peak AB levels after 2 weeks after the second shot. The AB levels then start declining since the body does not encounter any virus / antigen again.
    Within this period you have immediate protection, but no 100% protection.

    Later then when you have got relatively low AB levels and the virus arrives your memory T and B cells have to wake up. This usually takes 1-2 days. Within THIS period you can shed the virus, you get infected and you get damage.
    Since delta is more contagious it can do more harm within those 1-2 days of latency.
    More detailed: Delta has a higher affinity to ACE2. It enters a human cell much faster, but its replication rate in a cell is still the same.

    This reasons the lower efficacy percentage when it comes to infection, but the still high percentage when it comes to more severe symptoms.

    BUT this does not mean that delta is escaping the vaccines. I am still convinced it can last for years....
    You cannot force the body to wake up faster. This is nature of the memory t and b cells, period.
    The advantage of the vaccine is to have those memory cells already cultivated.

    An unvaxxed person with no cross-immunity needs up to 2 weeks to have sufficient AB levels and cytotoxic T cells at hand.....
    In other words you are buying time by vaccines.

    When you boost your body you provoke a wake up in advance, THIS benefit lasts only a few months.
    It makes no sense to give booster to have AB levels up. The immune system sooner or later will behave strange if provoked again and again.
    The vaccine makers of course are pushing people to have a look at AB levels and reason their decline to get boosters.
     
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  15. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Why can't we vaccinate all people on Earth if the situation calls for it?
     
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  16. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #2876 case-sensitive, Aug 4, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
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  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Look, there is an alternative, a very "real" and "tested" one: instead of providing housing and a helping hand to the downtrodden - you can send (like in Brazil, for instance) a police force to "clean it all up", as in "eliminate the problem", vagrant and homeless, street kids included... In fact, you are right, this kind of "solution" is in line with your Heimat's "precious ex-Leader", so I suppose this is where you got it...

    And you are calling MY solution a Fascist one? Man, you're not only weird, you're a right old moron, if you believe your own words!!! Turn the finger inwards, if you wouldn't do what is possible and necessary, in line with the obvious capability we have, as Humanity...

    What a twisted mind you have!!!

    P.S. We certainly have loads of resources to make all of those things right! But oh, no, respect the "private property" and let it all be wasted on space tourism instead...
     
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  18. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #2878 case-sensitive, Aug 4, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
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  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    You could be a politician.
    You assign a sort of consciousness to 'the situation' as if it would be able to call for something per se.
    In fact it's people who call for vaccination.

    I don't think you could justify it for many reasons.
    It should be clear now that a covid vaccine is made for pure self-protection. You still can infect others, it's no act of solidarity.

    Physical integrity is a human right, you should know and not give up to realize a measure which success and long term harm is still unknown.
    All the more not because there are alternatives to the vaccine.
     
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  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    This is all very easy, If you are struggling with such questions - my sympathies, C-S.... One can't do it to literally everybody (like immuno-challenged etc.) but... Hold on, you are a literalist?!? Oh, dear...

    Proper education/information to all the people is needed, of course! Not necessarily 'force' - but your worse side immediately lifts its ugly head, eh?

    Oh, well, what can we do about it...???

    And we (Humanity - there, there, better now? Oh, boy, so much effort needed...) certainly have the capacity. The issue is political will!

    One day we shall understand there must be a general population vaccination programme because a disease will be much worse than C-19, which will mutate easily and get worse... And you do not want to be ready for that?!? That's MORONIC!!!
     
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