Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Deleted member 1254778, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Oh, boy, the southern US...

    "Texas officially loses to COVID after 18 months giving up ground.

    FB_IMG_1628581996588.jpg Help your fiends, and neighbors get vaccinated."
     
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  2. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    Vaccination is not the ultimate solution.
    There are thousands of deaths after people getting the shot. Correlation yes, causation maybe yes maybe not.

    Early treatment is key to fight COVID-19.
    There are several inexpensive treatments out there which can save your life.
    COVID-19 has a very low mortality rate regardless others opinions.
     
  3. Yen

    Yen Admin (retired)
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    #2943 Yen, Aug 10, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
    It's you who frequently is coming up with the thalidomide tragedy ...anyway you actually create again a fruitful soil for a potential repetition of a medical tragedy by your personal advocating of the vaccines ermm gene therapeutics.
    This being said not to blame you personally....it's to point you on a double standard.

    There are lots of people out there who made the decision to get vaccinated, but then they don't want to hear anything about (long term) side effects anymore and simply do ignore them.....

    Either we are objective and do measure safety with the same means (for instance to count deaths the same way vaccination and covid) or we ignore medical tragedies of the past by distorting recent relations....downplaying the adverse events of the vaccines....

    By doing that (being objectively 'equal') we get a real data set to calculate the real risk / benefit ratio of a vaccination. The last variable left then is the long term events
     
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  4. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    ok I agree with you Yen that's right...
     
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  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Nonsense, @Yen. This is a travesty. I pointed out to you immediately the position you were in, when you first harshly rejected the right of those people to have had the kind of protection they have now. I protested then and now I am clearly seeing you turn 180°.

    If you wanna blame somebody for it - stand in front of a mirror, don't kill the messenger, it will do you no good.

    You were praising mRNA vaccines and now...

    And so on. Double standards? Yes but not to be connected to me. I am the steady one in this debate and anyone can see it going back.

    Starting with the quantity thing I just caught you do, while playing dumb...

    C'mon, man...
     
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  6. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  7. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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  8. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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  9. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Better that than being a moron and not discuss anything, just keep parroting somebody else's BS!!!!
     
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  10. taviruni

    taviruni MDL Senior Member

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    #2951 taviruni, Aug 11, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
    Good news, a new drug for Covid-19 developed in Israel is under test, showing good results in hospitalized patiens during preliminary studies in Greece, of course still more tests required.

    This are some relevant parts of the article:

    Placebo study still to come, but inventor says medication ‘could be a game changer’ after around 9 out of 10 participants in Greek trial are released from hospital within 5 days.

    The patients were given the inhaled drug EXO-CD24, developed at Tel Aviv’s Ichilov Medical Center.

    “We are not suppressing or altering the immune system, but rather restoring it to normality by controlling the aspect of the system that causes the cytokine storm, the overreaction of the immune system that is often the cause of serious COVID illness”


    For more info see:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/88-pa...precision-covid-drug-wrapping-up-early-trial/
     
  11. Yen

    Yen Admin (retired)
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    #2952 Yen, Aug 11, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
    I never have praised mRNA vaccines.

    Since I respect people who want to take vaccines against covid I use what I know to make recommendations such as to prefer mRNA vaccines over vector vaccines.
    Just recently where you asked gene therapy? I posted info and again underlined why I'd prefer mRNA over vector.
    This has absolutely nothing to do with praising.

    I also clearly pointed out that my fav is Novavax which is a conventional one.
    I also posted overviews such as: https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/coronavirus-discussion.81224/page-86#post-1636635
    to let people have informations.

    But I very early issued doubts about the vaccination approach.
    Here more in general on last October already:
    And again more specifically.
    @gorski You are twisting my words and then you say I turned around.
    Anything is posted in the public, people can read it and make their own conclusions. :p

    I am able to work out things, reason it, without to let involve my personal decision not to take a covid vaccine myself. To make a recommendation when being asked is no praising! I advised my parents and friends seeking a healthy debate so they have a good feeling to have taken the right vaccine.


    Something open and healthy that is officially not wanted.
    https://www.ebu.ch/news/2020/12/tru...mbat-spread-of-harmful-vaccine-disinformation

    The censorship is planned and a general order has been released.
    People have the need for an open debate!

    But since it is suppressed by censorship and it's only allowed to talk conform to officials like WHO, CDC, NHI etc...they feel like treated as kids / dumb persons.
    Facebook groups exchanging their experiences about vaccine side effects got deleted, discussions on repurposed drugs like IVM deleted.

    As an result ALL those authorities now have lost their creditability and many people say : FU! I am mature enough to decide on my own. And rightly so!


    Thanks for this.
    I also reported about it there. :)
     
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  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    @Yen: I am worried about you, as your memory is certainly failing you...

    Look and learn...

    "...Thailand’s youth-led anti-government protest continues to gain momentum as the country faces a surge in COVID-19 infection rates. Protesters are demanding PM Chan-ocha’s resignation for the government’s mismanagement of the COVID-19 pandemic, and for catering to elites’ interests at the expense of the rest of the population.

    Thailand’s daily death toll has risen exponentially due to the Delta variant, but only 6% of its population is currently vaccinated due to the government’s sluggish vaccination rollout.

    Protesters are also outraged by the how the government’s mismanagement of the pandemic is affecting the economy, leaving many without a source of income."
     
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  13. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Was I really completely misinterpreting you, @Yen? And this was a quick search on a mobile phone only....
     
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  14. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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  15. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    #2956 R29k, Aug 12, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021


     
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  16. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #2957 case-sensitive, Aug 12, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
    .
     
  17. vladnil

    vladnil MDL Senior Member

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  18. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #2959 case-sensitive, Aug 12, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
    .
     
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin (retired)
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    #2960 Yen, Aug 12, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
    No, @gorski you didn't misinterpreting me, except when meaning that I do explicitly praise the covid mRNA vaccines, or praise vaccination against coivid in general.

    There are two different things.
    -vaccination as approach to break the covid pandemic and the fact that those vaccines rely on a completely new tech.
    -the covid vaccines and their relative differences.

    Once a person has chosen to take the vaccine I still would recommend mRNA for now. This has not changed. Your quotes of mine is my reasoning why.
    From the perspective of vaccination as general approach and new tech I also still stick to my doubts namely that vaccines can break the pandemic at all and the concerns that we do not know what happens in the future (adverse events).
    Also the side effects which are happening which are far more than average...(and false statements and pro bias of authorities, suppression of exchange, under-reporting of adverse events, extremely short period of time in development, excluded preclinical studies etc etc..)

    The conventional vaccines which are using inactivated or attenuated virus Sinopharm and Covaxin for instance seem to have less efficacy. I asked a Biologist what he thinks about. He has made a conjecture. If you 'weaken / disable' the virus too much it can turn out that the relevant parts of the virus get modified and the corresponding immune answer created is not that efficient any more.
    Finally one more word about my fav Novavax. (Again just a fav within the covid vaccines / candidates, no praising).

    Novavax is conventional because one injects the antigen.
    It's not inactivated or attenuated virus, it's spike protein that has been created within moth cells.
    Those S proteins are then placed on a synthetic particle that has approximately the same diameter than the original virus.
    This is called a recombinant vaccine.

    This one has no EUA yet and is an ALTERNATIVE for those who want to have an effective vaccine but are afraid of vaccines which are based on genetic material. (Efficacy seems to be good so far, not that weak as at the other conventional ones named above.)

    And I think there is another little issue in understanding.

    There is the human genome (there where our genetic info is stored. It's human DNA in our cell's nucleus) AND there is generally genetic material. (DNA, RNA)
    A mRNA does not enter the nucleus and the natural way of transcription and translation IS : DNA-->mRNA-->protein. At vector virus: genetic viral DNA (S protein encoded) --->nucleus-->mRNA--->protein.

    Anyway a mRNA vaccine is a gene therapeutic BECAUSE you inject the antigen in form of mRNA where it is encoded as such. And RNA IS genetic material. It is a genetic blueprint of the S protein!

    There are retro viruses as you know. THEY can go mRNA--->DNA this is called reverse transcription. This usually cannot happen at mRNA vaccines, though.

    And there is a simple rule, too. Only DNA can become included into human DNA / genome.
    RNA never. It's another 'language', therefore a reverse transcription into DNA has to take place first.

    Edit: Perhaps the reason of misunderstanding is just because I think the authorities do praise the vaccines on any costs and I am a sort of allergic to that. And I want to stay away from that.
    Whenever I hear the word "to praise" something..something like "praise the lord" comes into my mind.:D
    The new tech is fascinating to me and addresses the researcher in me. That's one point.
    But for the quickly developed vaccines against covid it still applies. I do not praise them. We still have to gather more data.
     
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