Coronavirus | Discussion

If you see solidarity already in a way like:" I am vaccinated, I won't in a higher probability occupy a bed in a hospital." then it's fine.

Anyway what really happens depends on how many people you do infect. In other words, how many beds you do really keep free!
According to the findings of that study you still shed the same amount of virus as the unvaxxed people! Vaccination makes no difference.

Furthermore if being vaxxed and being protected from severe symptoms you might even not know that you are sick and continue to walk around infecting others. An unvaxxed one might already suffer from it and stays at home and does not spread any further.

My argument was primarily to say:"Vaccination is self- protection. NOT to protect others from getting the virus!"
And I pointed to the vaccination passport.
It is sold as an entry card based on a dangerously false assumption:" Hey look, here is my vaccination certificate I am no danger to others!"

You could travel to somewhere 'assuring' that you do not occupy a hospital bed there. Fine.
But while travelling and getting infected you can still transmit the virus to hundreds of others.

But never mind. The most important thing is You can say I offered solidarity, I did not use your hospitals.

The right way would be to say to the people." If you want protection from severe symptoms, consider to get a vaccine. You still will shed the virus if infected like an unvaxxed, though."

SARS-CoV-2 is endemic already. The pandemic is a world-wide event and vaccines won't be available to everybody. There will be always unvaxxed people around you.

To want to eradicate the virus and saying "I am out of it, here is my vaccination certificate that proves that" is an absurd human idea. It will infect any human on earth sooner or later. Those being vaccinated or protected in another way will go through it with a better probability of getting less symptoms. (Not to forget 80% of humans do not get really sick).

Once infected (or being vaccinated) it seems we do create a life long protection due to memory cells found in bone marrow. (Those 80% without severe symptoms might have cross-immunity already)

It will become (as I wrote in a very early post) a brother of those other common cold corona viruses where we get only a common cold until the memory cells are kicking in.

At least recent studies are suggesting that.

 

I know what science is and I know what politics erm religion is.

It is good to hear that vaccinated people in the UK where you live have still tests to do.
Here in Germany politics are flowing a religion excluding any vaccinated people from further voluntarily testing.
The vaccine certificate here is treated as an entry card of people who do not contribute to spreading anymore!

Unvavxxed like me have to do testing when going inside of a restaurant, indoor event etc.... The result must not be older than 24h. I do not complain about that, I just ask for the same at vaxxed ones since they can spread as unvaxxed people.

Things have changed a bit since the virus has changed. While the vaccines resulted to a lower peak virus level (compared to unvaxxed) at original wuhan and alpha, it is at delta not the case anymore (see study).

So far it seems to be like this:
After a natural infection or full vaccination one has full active and free antibodies for around 4-5 months. Within this period of time one is best protected for infection and for severe sickness.
AND since the immune system doesn't have to rely on memory cells yet and has still active cells it responds actually immediately.
Effectiveness of vaccines against infections at delta has decreased at any vaccine, though.

After those 4-5 months when ab levels are waning the chance to get infected is increasing, but due to memory t and b cells one is still protected against severe sickness.

They wake up after 1-3 days after (re)infection, are starting to proliferate, are undergoing an affinity maturation, means are 'learning' to deal with the mutated portions of the virus.

AB levels with 'new' ABs which have a greater affinity to the mutated pathogen are ramping up. This comes along with a mild progress. As soon as the virus is beaten after 4-5 months they are waning again.
Excess of t and b cells are killed, memory t and b cells vanish into for instance bone marrow again and are waiting for the next infection.

More closer to your question:
The adaptive arm of the immune system consists of 2 major arms. TH1 and TH2.
It depends on the individual who got vaccinated which arm will be the dominant arm.

TH1: results to cytotoxic t cells. Cells which detect already infected cells and do kill them.

TH2: results to b cells and plasma cells which are creating antibodies. ABs do attach on the virus so it cannot enter and infect the cells anymore. By that the virus gets flagged to be killed.

It is reported that people who have a dominant TH1 pathway do not get that much sick, they have consequently lower ab levels and get probably more infected.

People who have a dominant TH2 pathway have more ABs but less cytotoxic t cells. It is said that those get not infected as much but might suffer from severe progresses.

Some vaccine makers are advertising a dominant TH1 pathway.
But IMHO it still depends more on the individual.

Hope I could shed some insight to your question.

 

There is usually no testing how the relation TH1 to TH2 defence has been initiated at an individual after either vaccination or natural infection.
The mainstream medicine is only keen on AB levels and their waning (and their worries about waning which are unreasonable).

There are people who have low AB levels, but still seem to be protected very well. Probably because of a good TH1 defence.

Once the antigen is presented to a naive t cell it either becomes a TH1 (t helper 1 cell) or a TH2 (t helper 2 cell).
Actually a naive t cell TH0 can become a TH1,TH2, TH17 or a Treg (regulatory) cell.

Science knows which kind of signalling is responsible to either become a TH1 or TH2. (Those are the major arms which usually are in focus when it comes to immune response) Substances involved in signalling are interleukin and interferon. For instance IL-12 is responsible for TH1 initiation.

It is a complex matter and the regulation has to be balanced. There is signalling for kind of differentiation and TH1 has its own signalling and TH2 another signalling.

TH1 dominance is usually measured if IFN-γ↑ and IL-4↓
TH2 dominance: IFN-γ↓ and IL-4↑

You take blood, you measure IFN-γ and IL-4 and you divide both values to get the TH1 to TH2 ratio.

It has been reported that individuals who are more prone to get into a cytokine storm have had an excessive TH2 answer. Maybe the regulatory t cells have failed and/or the TH2 pathway suppressed the TH1 pathway.

That's why I wrote:"....might suffer from severe progresses"
That's also the reason why some vaccine makers are advertising their product as being TH1 dominant.

There is a rule: No immune answer without an inflammatory response. It seems a massive TH2 defence causes more inflammation issues.
And: People do not die because of the SARS-CoV-2 infection per se, they die due to immense inflammatory processes.

But anything is still a process of research.
AFAIK some doctors in the US for instance are creating lab protocols to find signalling parameters (markers) in order to predict if one gets either severe (cytokine storm) or long haul..or nothing of both.

But SARS-Cov-2 is a really complex infection.