Moving AWAY from Microsoft products IS very much possible for many people.

Discussion in 'Linux' started by smallhagrid, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. eemuler

    eemuler MDL Senior Member

    Jul 31, 2015
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  2. smallhagrid

    smallhagrid MDL Addicted

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    @eemuler:
    When live boot media fails nowadays, the 1st cause is usually a UEFI controversy - which DOES point at the boot media not having been made for that specific type of booting.
    (This is confirmed pretty much if a boot CD or DVD does the same thing as a USB stick does.)

    2nd to that is the USB2 vs. 3 thing.

    It is very easy to get gloomy about all the above if these observations are not made correctly.

    Given that most newish h/w is 100% likely to be UEFI based - and that one must jump through hoops to work around THAT - it is too easy to have these problems and then just resort to blaming the live boot media instead of digging deeper for more UEFI crawlies.

    BTW:
    I went through this with the very 1st NB that I had to set up for someone else & had to learn the goofy stuff that all surrounds 'secure booting' and UEFI - which were VERY MUCH less than obvious, throwing errors which made no sense right up front, BUT=>
    Once I learned that the 1st step required was to SHUT OFF 'secure booting' from within windoze, and THEN deal with the stuff at the BIOS level (which itself took 2-4 go rounds before it would 'stick'...) and only THEN would it allow booting from the USB2 ports - it took even longer to find & fix the USB3 problem later - and that was years ago for me...which is the reason I couldnt find the needed USB3 fix for you.

    This -is- a set of problems which can drive one to distraction - which is essentially its goal - to make users get a false impression that UEFI + GPT is magically 'more secure', then to just give up on any alternative and stick with windoze rather than making the additional efforts to plow through all the extra nonsense now actually imposed by windoze via the h/w makers.

    My own bottom line:
    I tolerate the start-up of any new windoze h/w that I must work upon - ONLY ONCE now - to shut off that absurd 'secure booting', then I reach into BIOS and force it to stop the rest of that nonsense - then boot from a GParted CD (or stick) and erase literally EVERYTHING;
    And lastly, I create an MBR & the needed partitions for my desired installation beforehand.

    The only times now that I go directly to a live boot for testing is when it is some distro that I want to try out ONLY, which happens very seldom anymore - and if it is to be done on a UEFI based machine, I make sure to take a nice walk and/or do something very calming before that - as the struggle is just BOUND to be nerve-jangling !!!
     
  3. eemuler

    eemuler MDL Senior Member

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    I did NOT know that. So disable secure boot in Windows first, and then in the BIOS? I've already disabled it in the BIOS. Should I enable it again, disable it in Windows, and then disable it in the BIOS again?
     
  4. smallhagrid

    smallhagrid MDL Addicted

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    I wish I could tell you with 100% certainty that this is a perfect way to do it - BUT:
    Truth is, this came after most of a day searching for solutions to GPT &UEFI - it is what worked a bunch of times for me by now.

    Another but=>
    This may vary in relation to the specific h/w & BIOS as well, so in all openness I can only say it can be a starting point & when you've got it working...MAKE NOTES FOR LATER !!!

    Best Wishes for Sucess.
     
  5. Kim100

    Kim100 MDL Addicted

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    #105 Kim100, Sep 26, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
    Some distros deal with UEFI and Secure Boot better than others. Be careful of the choices you make in set up when asked to partition your hard drive, its about the only place you have to stop and consider what box to tick.

    You don't say which Linux release you are using. If I were you I would visit distrowatch and read a few reviews, settle on one that takes your fancy and then read up in their forum on the problems you have had so far. Go for a distro that is popular and holds your hand, MX is very good although I am using Lubuntu at the moment as it is kinder to low spec PCs.

    Rufus is pretty fool proof, stick with that.
     
  6. kenomime

    kenomime MDL Novice

    Sep 29, 2019
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    #106 kenomime, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
    ^ Rufus is good if you use DD mode with Linux ISOS, if you use ISO mode it could fail to boot.
    Another alternative (which is even more fool proof) is balena@io/etcher (replace @ by . )

    Friendly reminder : ALWAYS verify ISO's SHA256 (avoid inferior algorithms like MD5 if you have the choice, and prefer SHA512 as it's even better than SHA256) and its signature to ensure it's OK to use.(you don't need to do that if you use a magnet link or a torrent though.)
     
  7. rayleigh_otter

    rayleigh_otter MDL Expert

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    I would just in case, its what i was taught to do.
     
  8. kenomime

    kenomime MDL Novice

    Sep 29, 2019
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    I do it as well, as a habit, never hurts.
     
  9. eemuler

    eemuler MDL Senior Member

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    This is the post I have made in the Linux forum:
    https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/booting-a-live-distro-from-pen-drive-on-usb-3-0.80315/

    ubuntu-mate-18.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso
    rufus-3.8.exe

    Just recently there was a bug that caused issues with booting. The latest rufus release was supposed to fix that.

    FYI, linux live distros run just fine on my old laptop (although this live USB drive I've just made doesn't run on that because that laptop is MBR.) As far as low spec hardware goes, I have the opposite problem - my hardware is too high spec., I think.
     
  10. eemuler

    eemuler MDL Senior Member

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    #110 eemuler, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
    Okay, so after turning off secure boot through Windows 10, if I also turn off UEFI in the BIOS, the system expects to see an MBR boot drive, not the GPT boot drive I had so carefully created. I shall now proceed to recreate the Live USB drive in MBR mode and see where that goes.

    EDIT: Nope, that didn't work either. Same stdin: Invalid argument thing. I'll try with another pen drive.
    In a way, I'm glad this didn't work in MBR mode. My Windows 10 installation is GPT/UEFI, and I'd have had to switch secure boot in the BIOS every time.

    EDIT2: and someone please tell the linux team that I have no desire to mount a cow. In fact, it is illegal in my country to do so. (mount: mounting /cow on /root failed)
     
  11. Kim100

    Kim100 MDL Addicted

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    Sorry to hear that you are still having issues, I have used a number of Linux releases on new and old hardware and I have to say I have had very few problems. The biggest problem you have is that no one is likely to have had exactly the same issues you have experienced, with Windows its one OS, its just the hardware that differs, with Linux its the hardware and your choice of OS. If you have just been using different versions of Ubuntu ditch that "family" of Linux and try Debian or another completely different branch. Manjaro is very nice, give that a go. Good luck.
     
  12. smallhagrid

    smallhagrid MDL Addicted

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    #112 smallhagrid, Sep 30, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
    (OP)
    My position as OP here & observer on this branching of this discussion is as follows:
    1 - PCs have not advanced enough in forward ways from when they were just '386 & '486 machines to justify changing the storage & boot methods so radically as GPT & UEFI have done;
    2 - All these problems are windoze-centric, meaning this=> get rid of the windoze-made complications & the rest works better;
    3 - All versions of windoze that came after XP offer nothing so great as to justify these horrid complications just to use them;
    4 - UEFI & GPT are moving targets which are PURPOSE BUILT to frustrate any attempts to change the OS away from them;
    5 - Most folks are just needing to do the same, usual, activities on these 'new' PCs as they did on their 'old' PCs & have paid their good money just to gain...more useless complications.

    Have the attacks aimed at windoze OSes by all sorts of malware become less pronounced or more easily solved due to all this absurd & restrictive stuff ??
    Not AFAIK.
    This entire mirage of 'enhanced security' looks to me as nothing more than very solid verification of both the general ignorance of most folks in the tech realm as well as the poor folks' gullibilities when it comes to claims made by the lying tech giants to scrape their trusting customer's wallets...yet again, for the same old stuff with a 'new' paint job sprayed liberally on top of it.
    The very best 'proof' of security NOT being enhanced now as compared with the past is ransomware;
    If things have gotten so much better, then how has it even been possible for so much of that to do its stuff ??

    My own, very personal, best example:
    Went to the store with a friend & we each bought brand new, very shiny 17" HP notebooks with the abortion named '10' already installed on them.

    These both came with me to be 'fixed'.

    I did as detailed previously here, without any hesitation & totally scoured away ALL traces of '10', GPT & UEFI - put the 1st PC right into 'legacy booting' & MBR modes & installed Ubuntu Mate from a DVD - all in less than 30 minutes total.
    It was absolutely known to me that there would be no road back if this process had failed and I had no exact assurances of 100% success, and still I did not hesitate to proceed.

    Given the EXACT natures & purposes of GPT & UEFI, I suggest that any windoze-centered h/w bought in the present 'modern time' may become more & more difficult to re-purpose UNLESS one is willing to ditch all of the non-improvements to pave that road smoothly FIRST.

    Making the BIOS, boot, storage AND the OS deliberately to fight the users desires is NOT stuff that would have been done by companies that had aims of being GOOD to their customers;
    The populace is being regarded by such evil-minded (too-) profit-centered company 'leaders' as being sheep or cows, or merely cattle, to be used and tossed aside for their greed motivated gains.

    Yes, this ALL is a personal statement based upon 20+ years in this field, and it is my own;
    I stand by it.
     
  13. rayleigh_otter

    rayleigh_otter MDL Expert

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    Just had a nose at dell uk laptops, only 2 have linux(ubuntu). I have heard you can order a laptop "without os" and save a few quids. Wouldnt touch ubuntu seeing as i prefer debian but it would be a good start. They should actually give you an option to order online "without os" rather than have to speak to someone whose 1st language isnt the same as yours. Tried it once, good grief :mad:
     
  14. dude905

    dude905 MDL Junior Member

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    #114 dude905, Sep 30, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    It doesn't look like I can install Linux on my Lenovo ThinkCentre M71e. I have created a usb flash stick with Rufus with Linux Mint 18 latest version of Mate. I was able to boot up from the flash stick and have a desktop which shows install Linux which is what I did. I can see the hard drive has all the folders/files from the install but once I restart without the flash stick and try to boot off the hard drive. I get an error 1962: No operating system found. Press any key to repeat boot sequence. Under the bios, I have the hard drive selected first in the order. I have change bios setting from AHCI to IDE, also disable the fast boot but still no go... I'm at a loss what to do next.
     
  15. dude905

    dude905 MDL Junior Member

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    #116 dude905, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    I try the first link you posted but I don't have that option available ( CSM )
    1. Once the system returns the error No Operating System Found error 1962, press and hold Ctrl + Alt + Del buttons. Now the system should reboot. To switch to BIOS setup, press F12 several times.
    2. When Setup written box occurs, press Enter.
    3. Now select Startup tab at the top of the window and select CSM
    Also, there nothing wrong with the cables since when I swap HHD with windows one it will load windows and I even try the Linux on 2 different HHD

    Oh well. I give up I been at it for over 10 hours now and this Lenovo will not install Linux. There nothing wrong with my cables or hard drives. There no option under the bios for CSM or do I have anything with UEFI option ... There is an option under USB where I can just enable legacy or disable but that about it. I have tried every possible option in the bios, its a no go. wow. I can install windows no problem but not Linux

    How about that I spend less than an hour on my Dell PC and I was able to install Linux Mint 19.2 "Tina" - MATE (64-bit) ... For some reason, it wouldn't get installed on the Lenovo
     
  16. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #117 Yen, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
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  17. dude905

    dude905 MDL Junior Member

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    #118 dude905, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    There is no UEFI option. I try every possible selection under the bios

    Linux Diagnostics - Bootable CD driver for Lenovo ThinkCentre M71e (Type 3176)
    is a diagnostic tool that can be booted itself and tests the >>> memory and hard drives <<< in Lenovo ThinkPad, ThinkCentre, ThinkStation and ThinkServer on All Operating Systems.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but that just a Linux Cd bootable diagnostics tool to test my memory or hard drive, which both are good. I can boot off the usb flash stick no problems just not able to install from it or any cd/dvd disc
     
  18. TinMan

    TinMan MDL Member

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    #119 TinMan, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
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  19. dude905

    dude905 MDL Junior Member

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    #120 dude905, Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019